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PUG and Premade City instances

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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#21 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:59 am

Mystry wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:38 am
Vayra wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:40 pm Cities are end-game content. And should reward coordination and preparation. I've both pugged cities, joined 12 mans, and gone in with a premade from some of the better destro guilds. You can always find some group willing to take you, though the very best might be more restrictive on classes and/or gear.
By your own signature you play a sorc, a dok, and a BG.

I challenge you to find a single non-**** city warband that will invite you when you're playing a non-meta class.
well to be fair if you go class by class

all tanks are essential in city and have a place on both realms...

healers wp/rp dok/zealot for sure.... Shamans and AM can be great but only the top end players, most do not utilize properly and are light weight / too squishy and so become a liability for the most part as they will get focussed more (less armour/survial)

DPS
Destro side
maybe Magus is only dps you really do not want, it can do alot of fluff damage, against weak teams though that fluff damage will kill them... pet too easy to counter and stationary

Welf/Choppa/Mara/MSH/Sorc are all very viable

Order Side
Maybe engi is main dps you really do not want... similar to magus easy to counter... has some nice utility but can also give out way too much immunities if done bad...

Shadow warriors also, but some good premades used SW...

BW/SL/WL/WH is more viable

so 2 healer classes (which are good in the right hands)

and 3 dps classes... (which can also have some use)

so this "META THIS and META THAT" doesn't really hold weight... its more a skill level and team synergy thing and what you are facing.

Also i did not go into detail about how many of X Y Z you want of each class as some are more in demand than others also for stacking... but I am saying they each have a role if played to a high level, the issue is when they are not they are exposed and it shows so people will tend to avoid these classes unless its someone with a pre built known reputation from sc or orvr...

It shows that classes are pretty well balanced if only a few are IFFY choices to be honest.
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Mystry
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Posts: 445

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#22 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:03 am

Wam wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:59 am so this "META THIS and META THAT" doesn't really hold weight... its more a skill level and team synergy thing and what you are facing.
No, it absolutely isn't. I'm going to be brutally honest here and tell you that you are not in a position to speak about pug players and their experiences trying to get into warbands. You're a guild leader with a dedicated team of underlings to bring with you at any time that you want.

I don't believe that there is a single city premade that will willingly bring something like a DPS healer, or a SW, or a WH, or anything else that isn't 100% meta, unless the leader of that premade personally knows that player OR they literally cannot find anyone else. You are right in that you can roll basically any tank or healer and get in, but if you're DPS, you are either a BW, a WL, a Slayer, or you're out, unless you know the party leader or they can't find anyone else.

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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#23 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:34 am

Mystry wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:03 am
Wam wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:59 am so this "META THIS and META THAT" doesn't really hold weight... its more a skill level and team synergy thing and what you are facing.
No, it absolutely isn't. I'm going to be brutally honest here and tell you that you are not in a position to speak about pug players and their experiences trying to get into warbands. You're a guild leader with a dedicated team of underlings to bring with you at any time that you want.

I don't believe that there is a single city premade that will willingly bring something like a DPS healer, or a SW, or a WH, or anything else that isn't 100% meta, unless the leader of that premade personally knows that player OR they literally cannot find anyone else. You are right in that you can roll basically any tank or healer and get in, but if you're DPS, you are either a BW, a WL, a Slayer, or you're out, unless you know the party leader or they can't find anyone else.
you think i haven't pugged? you think i am always full guild wb? not even always full alliance... I also have guildies in many different instances / streams of other instances ... so i am semi aware of happenings around me. I dont have underlings and cant summon people any time of day :lol: if i could organising it would be hella lot easier and more consistent 8-)

I have lead pugs a few times, had people never show up on comms, go afk walk about in map, or just simply afk... or have no talismans in gear or never use any potions...

We run WH in our order premade...

Fought a tough order premade in instance 1 the other day which run 2 SW...

I know the above two is more exception than general rule though just saying they are used.

I can agree that "unless the leader of that premade personally knows that player OR they literally cannot find anyone else." you would look for status quo more reliable classes... because you would hope some of the easier classes to learn and high RR / GEAR people would generally be of a certain standard by that point in their journey.

some DPS healers got nerfed pre sovereign release so that put them in a very bad spot at this time (ZDPS/ RDPS in particular) DPS Shaman/AM are in competition with Choppa/SL so its very hard for them... this i can agree with the niche of dps healer would be very difficult... Maybe DPS DOK is only one which can maybe get away with it but more likely you would have to know them so they are not a wasted spot.

Atleast the dps healers have the choice of being a healer and being in high demand but totally different style of play. I will agree its hard for the niche classes, because spots are limited and they are very lucky if they get a look in with maybe 1 out of the 8 dps spots up for grabs for niche.

so 20-30 instances... many people play solo niche classes that are generally less welcome in team play ... (dps AMs) you even have many dps WP about also... so these healers which go dps and not respec to healers to make better balance for realm / self gains... kinda cause that overflow problem a little worse than it should be (no hate for DPS healers thats their choice, but for gaining gear makes more sense to be pure heal generally)... and make it harder for the likes of WH/SW (that is 20-30 spots for so many players of these classes, which will ultimately lead to a couple instances having a big overflow of them which is not really ideal for those instances but RNG)
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Nrrrdking
Posts: 8

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#24 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:16 am

As a new player here as well as one that played during the original live release, I can kinda see where the OP is coming from. I don't think the OP realizes what he's asking of a competitive play group but there is some merit to their opinion. I guess this request should be framed more like this:

Separate city sieges into ranked and unranked instances. Make the reward for ranked instances higher so that organized guilds are motivated to play hard to the meta for the extra goodies and so that they can be certain to have their wits tested against a formidable opponent.

This has the added bonus of letting more casual players see this content (which is what they want) without having such a "feels bad" experience that can sour them to the game overall. That's not to say that all PuG warbands aren't organized or that guilds won't participate in them at all. After all, not all guilds are great hyper-efficient meat grinders. It will just make the gap between players a little less steep while still giving ambitious guilds something to aspire to without requiring the humiliation of fellow human beings.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#25 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:20 am

Detangler wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:32 pm The only thing I dont like is how the uber builds actively try to avoid each other so they can get the easy gear. You'd think they would jump at the chance to get an even fight and brag when they beat their hatred rivals, but naw it's more fun to wait to queue and then stomp casuals cause you get 3 more crests.
+1

Would be neat if beating a high rr wb yielded x1.5 rewards or smth.

Or stomping a wb with 50% of your total rr = pissy rewards
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

M0rw47h
Posts: 898

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#26 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:45 am

Mystry wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:03 am
Wam wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:59 am so this "META THIS and META THAT" doesn't really hold weight... its more a skill level and team synergy thing and what you are facing.
No, it absolutely isn't. I'm going to be brutally honest here and tell you that you are not in a position to speak about pug players and their experiences trying to get into warbands. You're a guild leader with a dedicated team of underlings to bring with you at any time that you want.

I don't believe that there is a single city premade that will willingly bring something like a DPS healer, or a SW, or a WH, or anything else that isn't 100% meta, unless the leader of that premade personally knows that player OR they literally cannot find anyone else. You are right in that you can roll basically any tank or healer and get in, but if you're DPS, you are either a BW, a WL, a Slayer, or you're out, unless you know the party leader or they can't find anyone else.
Why would you bring DPS healer anywhere outside of 6v6?
SWs and WHs are played in cities, as do they equalivents on the dark side.

kryss
Posts: 456

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#27 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:46 am

In my experience, WHs and WEs are critical for a City WB success. You don't usually bring 4, but 1 or 2 are surely needed for many reasons. I'm running with a Order premade and all classes can bring something to the table if played well: I think the only one which is really less represented in WB's compositions is Engi (and I guess Magus). SW comes next, but I've seen a few doing good things

Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#28 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:00 am

just my observation, even prem vs prem stil always end up one sided stomping. pugs vs pugs though have some interestin fun fights sometimes.

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Nefarian78
Posts: 460

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#29 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:11 am

Mystry wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:03 am I don't believe that there is a single city premade that will willingly bring something like a DPS healer, or a SW, or a WH, or anything else that isn't 100% meta, unless the leader of that premade personally knows that player OR they literally cannot find anyone else. You are right in that you can roll basically any tank or healer and get in, but if you're DPS, you are either a BW, a WL, a Slayer, or you're out, unless you know the party leader or they can't find anyone else.
That might be true for Order and only for BWs and Slayers simply because they're so far high up above the other DPS classes. That still doesn't mean the other classes are invalidated. Engis, SWs, WHs are all classes that can work perfectly well in a organized 24v24 fight and bring much to a warband. If the Order warband leaders can't see that, then that's their problem to fix.
They done stole my character's names. Can't have **** in RoR.

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Vayra
Posts: 577

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#30 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:58 am

Mystry wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:03 am
I don't believe that there is a single city premade that will willingly bring something like a DPS healer, or a SW, or a WH, or anything else that isn't 100% meta, unless the leader of that premade personally knows that player OR they literally cannot find anyone else. You are right in that you can roll basically any tank or healer and get in, but if you're DPS, you are either a BW, a WL, a Slayer, or you're out, unless you know the party leader or they can't find anyone else.
You may believe that, but you'd be wrong. I don't play order so can't comment on those classes, but on destro I've been in premade wb's that run Magus, WE and both ranged and melee squigs. What I see on destro is far more selecting people by renown/gear than class. Most premades would take an 80 WE or SH over a 45 sorc in my experience.

And honestly, if you really can't find a wb as WH (SW I'll agree isn't in the best of spots, but still has uses in city), try to lead your own. It's hard work, but very rewarding when you make it work. And might give you a bit of insight into why people form warbands the way they do.
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