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PUG and Premade City instances

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Elemint
Posts: 112

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#71 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:39 pm

The losing side already gets a crest and more importantly a bag roll. I'm not sure what else you could possibly want? If you put in minimal effort expect minimal results. The "I would like to face actual competition" button would be nice but apart from that i don't see how you could possibly implement a matchmaker much different than what it currently is - trying to much full warbands against full warbands.

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Scrilian
Posts: 1567

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#72 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:21 pm

This entire thread is so good.
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kok
Posts: 120

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#73 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:33 am

Elemint wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:39 pm
The losing side already gets a crest and more importantly a bag roll. I'm not sure what else you could possibly want? If you put in minimal effort expect minimal results.
The problem is you can do MAX effort and still get minimum result cause someone in the Warband have bad gear.
The best part is people just give up after initial wiped, cause there is no reason to fight on.
Not like you have a chance to have 2/3 of the winner reward like in SC.
Northside-KOTBS ,Southside-SW Westsides-WP Eastside-WH,Rightside-WL
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Orontes
Posts: 162

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#74 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:00 pm

The issue remains the end game is amok. It is informed by a corrosive mentality that feeds all through  RvR, Advice Chat, City instances of all stripes etc.  The defense of the status quo has been:

A -Those in the non-elite guilds, or working with the same, simply must accept they lack skill. In simple terms: accept one's place in the hierarchy. 

B) Those invested in the game long term (that end game City instances reflect) are looking for competition.  The status quo represents that.  All must adapt, likewise organize, and compete.

C) Nothing can be done to change things: it's too hard to figure out a solution.


Per A) This is a game version of social darwinism. It ignores the roll gear of gear and the classes themselves. It is a species of Tier 1 twinks from Live that would run about killing level 4 etc.and consider such behavior a mark of their skill.  Over the long term this will lead to population attrition.

Per B) The elite guild pursuit of competition meme is a farce. Farming isn't competition. Real elites want and embrace the idea of being able to go up against their like minded on the other side in clear premade instances.

Per C) Multiple solutions have been presented in the thread.  The most obvious is to simply make all City instances PUG.  This would completely eliminate the problem as individual queuing over multiple instances would make it impossible to replicate the current corrosiveness.  Unfortunately, this would likely lead to crying from those with guild egos to protect.  Therefore, a binary option of PUG and Premade instances, or ternary model of: PUG, premade and  premade ranked instances.  There are various models that could be implemented.  The point is to allow for something where City instances aren't simply farming exercises.  


What doesn't seem to have been addressed by advocates of that status quo is:

-A PUG option already exists for scenarios and the scenario system has not collapsed.

-A ranked option already exists for scenarios and the scenario system has not collapsed.

- Having options is generally better than not. 

-The farming or being farmed model is... boring.

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Martok
Posts: 990
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Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#75 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Orontes wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:00 pm
Per A) This is a game version of social darwinism. It ignores the (real goal) of gear and the classes themselves. It is a species of Tier 1 twinks from Live that would run about killing level 4 etc.and consider such behavior a mark of their skill. Over the long term this will lead to population attrition.

Exactly. Which is the primary point I made earlier. However given the response received population attrition does not appear to be a concern.

Orontes wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:00 pm
What doesn't seem to have been addressed by advocates of that status quo is:

-A PUG option already exists for scenarios and the scenario system has not collapsed.

-A ranked option already exists for scenarios and the scenario system has not collapsed.

- Having options is generally better than not. 

-The farming or being farmed model is... boring.

Well said.

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Brackso
Posts: 5

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#76 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:28 am

At least some of you do get into the City and can siege. I have once again waited 30 min for not even getting in. This is the 3d or 4th time I have waited for nothing, big waste of time.

And the lakes are dead when City is going on and more often dead for several hrs after City is locked. So much more "server down time" after the City`s came around, sadly.

wpc56
Posts: 100

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#77 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:44 pm

Brackso wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:28 am
At least some of you do get into the City and can siege. I have once again waited 30 min for not even getting in. This is the 3d or 4th time I have waited for nothing, big waste of time.

And the lakes are dead when City is going on and more often dead for several hrs after City is locked. So much more "server down time" after the City`s came around, sadly.
Hint, don't play easy mode destruction and play the underdog side... and you will have the honor of being farmed by pre-made dest group who formed the group before fort lord drops and queued up first.

Good luck trying to get into fort too as dest.

From my personal experience, glancing as win/lose city rate... destruction win at 70-90% of the instances. I'm sure that's not because certain order classes have no viable aoe spec and it's mirror top the chart (hint, it's shadow warriors) or certain faction have "easily" accessible morale drain and underdog side have one that's tied to a cloth class that needs to hit them from the back...

There's like one organized order guild run by bombling who wins. TUP plays on both sides so they literally play with themselves. I'm not european players so that's all I know. All other organized guilds are on dest side. I personally belong to a casual group of alliance that's "trying" to be meta... which is a way of saying more tanks/heals/bw/slayer and nothing else.

Now I just log into city, pug it and see what the rng god have in mind. Farm or be farmed... because my class isn't slayer or bw.

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Brackso
Posts: 5

Re: PUG and Premade City instances

Post#78 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:09 pm

wpc56 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:44 pm
Brackso wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:28 am
At least some of you do get into the City and can siege. I have once again waited 30 min for not even getting in. This is the 3d or 4th time I have waited for nothing, big waste of time.

And the lakes are dead when City is going on and more often dead for several hrs after City is locked. So much more "server down time" after the City`s came around, sadly.
Hint, don't play easy mode destruction and play the underdog side... and you will have the honor of being farmed by pre-made dest group who formed the group before fort lord drops and queued up first.

Good luck trying to get into fort too as dest.

From my personal experience, glancing as win/lose city rate... destruction win at 70-90% of the instances. I'm sure that's not because certain order classes have no viable aoe spec and it's mirror top the chart (hint, it's shadow warriors) or certain faction have "easily" accessible morale drain and underdog side have one that's tied to a cloth class that needs to hit them from the back...

There's like one organized order guild run by bombling who wins. TUP plays on both sides so they literally play with themselves. I'm not european players so that's all I know. All other organized guilds are on dest side. I personally belong to a casual group of alliance that's "trying" to be meta... which is a way of saying more tanks/heals/bw/slayer and nothing else.

Now I just log into city, pug it and see what the rng god have in mind. Farm or be farmed... because my class isn't slayer or bw.

Well I dont agree with you Destro win 70-90% of City, because the RoR addon says its about 50/50 win rate every single time I see a City, Destro win maybe 2-3 Citys more most of the days. But because of this you cant say Destro wins 70-90% of City based on 2-3 Cities more a day, its a fraction of the equation and the total picture and it isn't exactly good math you are showing me. For an example: if Order win 14 Citys and Destro win 16 Citys one day, you cant say Order didnt win any Citys that day. Order did actually win 47% of the Citys that day, so its a 47% win to Order and 53% win to Destro, not like you are presenting me a soccer match score board |Order 0 - 1 Destro|.

You also state Order is the under dog, because of lacking aoe. I can see why you say that if you pick SW vs Melee SH (but then again SW in Assault mode is insane single target compared to melee Squigs single target), but then again SW and Melee Squigs are just a fraction of the bigger picture.

I for sure do belive this game will not be balanced untill every aoe abilety on both sides are nerfed to the ground and there is more focus on single target skill full game play. Rigth now its just brainless plays on who brings and stacks the most aoe and best moral classes. :lol: :lol: :roll:

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