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Increase all movement speeds 10%

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imperialdeadite
Posts: 40

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#31 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:07 pm

Torintinhammer wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:54 am
Vayra wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:37 pm
Torintinhammer wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:30 pm


I do not suggest reducing cast times or increasing range. Only a speed increase is being proposed.

Low mobility a strong point? Think people are ignoring there is a PvE aspect to this game.

Can specific examples be given to support each of the points given? I'm trying to, fair is fair.
Like we have pointed out before, you cannot always cast at instant speed, therefore increasing mobility will need to address that in some form as well. Or you will make melee stronger against ranged/healers since they have less time to use non-instant abilities. With various pounces, charges and mara pull melee are already at an advantage against most ranged classes. Improving run speed without compensating elsewhere for casters will tip that balance further in favor of melee. We've stated this multiple times in this thread yet you seem unable to comprehend it.
No, definitely understand what is being said but can keep coming up with counterpoints.

Melee is effective against range if range stands still. The point being made is cast time means standing still which isn't always true. Some ranged can build while moving. In addition what are snares and knockbacks? Insta cast!
So you are suggesting that ranged DPS and healers completely ignore any spell that is not an instant cast? That seems stupid. Have you ever played a ranged DPS or healer and tried to never stand still?

Based on reading all the posts in this thread. I have concluded that you have no interest in having a conversation about this topic. Or understanding any aspect of the counter-arguments being made. You just want people to agree with you and bump the standard speed up. Sadly, for you, that is not going to happen. Because it would be detrimental to the game as a whole. Not just a bonus for you and your PVE playtime.

Have a nice day.
Waaghkiller the Man Hunter -- Goblin Shaman

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Sulorie
Posts: 4799

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#32 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:56 pm

This thread is about someone, who wants to move faster between pve quest hubs? Is this correct?
Dying is no option.

User avatar
imperialdeadite
Posts: 40

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#33 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:46 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:56 pm
This thread is about someone, who wants to move faster between pve quest hubs? Is this correct?
Pretty much.
Waaghkiller the Man Hunter -- Goblin Shaman

Torintinhammer
Posts: 24

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#34 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:24 am

imperialdeadite wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:07 pm
Torintinhammer wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:54 am
Vayra wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:37 pm


Like we have pointed out before, you cannot always cast at instant speed, therefore increasing mobility will need to address that in some form as well. Or you will make melee stronger against ranged/healers since they have less time to use non-instant abilities. With various pounces, charges and mara pull melee are already at an advantage against most ranged classes. Improving run speed without compensating elsewhere for casters will tip that balance further in favor of melee. We've stated this multiple times in this thread yet you seem unable to comprehend it.
No, definitely understand what is being said but can keep coming up with counterpoints.

Melee is effective against range if range stands still. The point being made is cast time means standing still which isn't always true. Some ranged can build while moving. In addition what are snares and knockbacks? Insta cast!
So you are suggesting that ranged DPS and healers completely ignore any spell that is not an instant cast? That seems stupid. Have you ever played a ranged DPS or healer and tried to never stand still?

Based on reading all the posts in this thread. I have concluded that you have no interest in having a conversation about this topic. Or understanding any aspect of the counter-arguments being made. You just want people to agree with you and bump the standard speed up. Sadly, for you, that is not going to happen. Because it would be detrimental to the game as a whole. Not just a bonus for you and your PVE playtime.

Have a nice day.
I did LOL at this one.

And once again no concrete examples and then says "doesn't want to have a conversation".

Please people, read the thread. Have never suggested that healers and casters stand still or that only instants be slotted. My rotations all have spells/heals that have cast times. The point is that before standing still I try to make sure the melee are standing just as still or are far away. If they are moving I am moving until range can be established before using something with a cast time. That is how you increase your survival time against melee.

What I keep hearing is a defense to stand still, which isn't in itself an adequate defense to repute this suggestion. Where are the facts? The details? The data?

At this point if your only statement is "you don't understand" despite the fact that there is evidence that I do, just stop. Have taken every class to at least rr60 and am here to say this isn't rocket science.

Torintinhammer
Posts: 24

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#35 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:27 am

Sulorie wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:56 pm
This thread is about someone, who wants to move faster between pve quest hubs? Is this correct?
Then you didn't play the original game. The PvP in AOR was a reflection of one of my threads including dynamic resources instead of gang standing on BO's.

But maybe start by reading this thread before commenting?

Torintinhammer
Posts: 24

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#36 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:28 am

imperialdeadite wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:46 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:56 pm
This thread is about someone, who wants to move faster between pve quest hubs? Is this correct?
Pretty much.
Says the poster who wants to stand still in PvP...

Sulorie
Posts: 4799

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#37 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:39 am

Torintinhammer wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:28 am
imperialdeadite wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:46 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:56 pm
This thread is about someone, who wants to move faster between pve quest hubs? Is this correct?
Pretty much.
Says the poster who wants to stand still in PvP...
What has standing still in pvp to do with getting a global 10% speed buff?
When you want to go fast from A to B, you use mount, quite simple.
Dying is no option.

User avatar
imperialdeadite
Posts: 40

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#38 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:04 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:39 am
Torintinhammer wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:28 am
imperialdeadite wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:46 pm


Pretty much.
Says the poster who wants to stand still in PvP...
What has standing still in pvp to do with getting a global 10% speed buff?
When you want to go fast from A to B, you use mount, quite simple.
It is that simple.
But this person appears to believe that arguing against a 10% increase in speed is to assume everyone stands still all the time. Ignoring the arguments as to why an increase in speed would be a detriment to the game as a whole.
Waaghkiller the Man Hunter -- Goblin Shaman

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Torintinhammer
Posts: 24

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#39 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:10 pm

imperialdeadite wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:04 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:39 am
Torintinhammer wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:28 am


Says the poster who wants to stand still in PvP...
What has standing still in pvp to do with getting a global 10% speed buff?
When you want to go fast from A to B, you use mount, quite simple.
It is that simple.
But this person appears to believe that arguing against a 10% increase in speed is to assume everyone stands still all the time. Ignoring the arguments as to why an increase in speed would be a detriment to the game as a whole.
To argue there must be a point to argue against. The response "it will be a detriment to the game" without providing specific examples to argue against does not permit a discussion. No one has given a specific reason as to how this would ruin the game. So let's get really specific.

Now before we get started will tell everyone what will happen. The people who so far have not provided a single specific will crap all over what is about to be written. Why? Because that is what critics do. They cannot produce thought, only ridicule those that can think. Shall we proceed?

Let's say a bright wizard and a marauder engage at 100 ft. Being generous because the LOS extends past this point but let's make it 100 ft. At this point the BW could start casting and might actually throw an instant. But if they try to go through a five second rotation, even without charging the marauder will be in pull distance with or without a +10% speed increase in less than 3 seconds. With the speed boost the time to a pull is two seconds. Can we agree on that?

So let's say the BW gets off an instant and then starts moving away. If the marauder does not charge then they will remain 100 ft apart, the speed boost is the same for both. This will probably result in a stalemate. Can we agree on this?

So in the first two cases a speed boost is not a factor if the BW stands still or if they both use normal movement in the same direction.

But let's say the BW wants to kill the marauder without dying. The key will be to maintain >65 ft unless the marauder is incapacitated or the BW dps can burn down the marauder before they can incapacitate the BW. In this instance the marauder will use their charge which then gives the BW 1.5 sec to do something unless they immediately start to move in the opposite direction.

Now let's say the current base speed is 15 ft/sec. At +10% it would now be +16.5 ft/sec and a marauder charge would go from 22.5 ft/sec to 24.75 ft/sec. That means if the BW moves away from the marauder the marauder can pull at just before the 5 second point at current speeds and just after the 4 second point with a speed boost of +10%. The difference is a half second and within the same second (between 4 and 5). In both cases the BW is being pulled.

So the speed boost in this example does not change that a BW needs to understand how to play their character. That when dealing with melee they need to understand how to use their snares, knockdowns, and knockbacks to counteract pulls, break frees, and silences.

This example is 1v1. The other gnashing of teeth is that people will be able to get out of range of casts. Yes, they will now have a tenth of a second extra to leave a static area of effect. For dynamic areas of effect they will have an extra tenth of a second to react and move out of the target area. Tenth of a second.

Now please, someone respond in detail why a change of +10% is so game breaking.

Cythraul
Posts: 5

Re: Increase all movement speeds 10%

Post#40 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:00 pm

This game isn't 1v1 nor is it balanced around 1v1, so your example is null. Please provide a better example to support your argument.

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