Order lack of melee

[Lovings]

Ironically, in the 16-39 bracket I'm struggling to get wins as Destro. Never have healers, Order generally has 3+ healers, mostly RP's.

5 SC's - 1 win.

Weird yesterday afternoon I lost 6 times in a row as order. No healer

Lets try and swap queues

[emiliorv]

I made a tank, SM, just to try to see how tanking feels.
It is the same fricking situation. Loss after loss after loss. All evening lost every SC.
You people seriously believe this is normal? or that it is my fault? season pvper in WoW (2100 rating ) or even oldies like Shadowbane. I do not want to seem arrogant at all, but that is out of the question.
This plague is affecting Order hard. I never get healed as tank. Never.
Also, Order apparently have no clue about the idea of killing healers.
The following scenario fits 98% of my sc runs:

Let's say Nordenwatch.
You start, you run towards Lighthouse. Obviously, 6 people will sit there because they have some distorted idea that they GET something out of it. They get nothing besides being late at Fort.
We reach fort. Their black orcs/mara/chosen go to flag, and from that direction push towards us and push us back on bridge.
We have 4-5 rdps be it engis or BW's or w/e...they all focus the tanks. The tanks literally NEVER die because behind them, at flag, they have 2 zealots, 1 dok and 2 shamans.
Then, because they have no clue that fort gives 1.5x more points ( something i found out in the first fricking day i played ), they all run to barracks. They take it.
Thus, we never manage to push towards Fort. Regardless, they are at lighthouse.
Game over.

I can write a scenario like this for every map, because it happened over and over and over again until i know how they will end. I feel like a prophet because i just know what will happen.
Also, i write and i try to explain strategies from what i've learned ( altough they are such simple tactics that it is almost pathetic to think about explaining it to someone older than 15 ). No one reads. Most people have no idea of /sc chat and they keep their chat tab selected on the main one, where everyone spams on /advice.
Even this simple detail creates issues. They never think about clicking on RvR for example, filters, and making it for a sc/rvr environment.
These are all things that any MMO player does in the 2nd day of playing a game, after getting a little feel.

Talking to me about rr40 and stuff..i will NEVER level so high at this rate. The only pleasant experience of progression was with the 2x xp event. It felt ok-ish even when losing and when you won you had a big boost of xp.

Right now, i tried all archetypes on Order. My wp is cr29, so i invested more into him than anything else. The situation does not change at T2.
I have no hope left, might quit the game because i do not want to play a faction that i totally dislike because of the disastrous situation Order experience.

I dare anyone who posted here to give this a try. Make a new order char, level to 8 and begin SC'ing. I can almost guarantee you will find every sc goes like i just wrote.

Don't get me started on more "difficult" SC's like the one with the altar and skull. People run past by it, they do not even know what to do.
The dam map with the bomb, a total mess, people are clueless.
The elf map with 2 flags and the bridge. No idea what is going on.
Just terrible.

Lol you reroled to Destro BO and finally complained about the same from the other faction...wtf!

[courtsdad1]

I felt very fortunate on Saturday as I was able to play all day ( rare) and had an outstanding win/lose record in SCs on Order side. Bought two full sets of armour with the rewards and advanced several levels. Really the only ones I remember losing were when sides were completely out of wack in terms of make up or when we had the usual "smack the tank, ignore the objective" disease.

In RvR we could use more melee up front behind those tanks everyone is being told to roll. Its really hard to bust a wall of tanks with our tanks mixed with a bunch of Rdps following them into the kill zone.

[Biro123]

I definitely see this a lot in T1.

T2 seems a lot more even (from my limited experience).

But T1 SC's are just painful for order right now.. Always seems to be either no (or not enough) heals - or more often, as mentioned, just no front line.

I've already levelled a kotbs past T1 (don't really want to continue - it was my main class back on live) - and a IB to around 12.. but it seems like whenever I play them without my healer friend, we have no heals.. or no other melee to guard..
I've levelled a WP past T1 too - and whenever I play him, we always seem to have no tanks!
And when I play a mdps, we appear to have neither - in that there are no tanks to make a real front-line, and our healers run a mile the other way as soon as destro looks at them..

I've definitely found that we do seem to do better though when I play a healer or tank (mostly tank) than when I become part of the problem and play rdps..
But that said, to tank for order in pug SC's - it seems you can't rely on healer support and so have to be built as tanky as possible to be able to function. It's an unappealing playstyle for those who look at damage numbers and deathblows on the scoreboard.. Even moreso when you consider that the tanks biggest tool (guard) doesn't appear till really late in that tier (Lvl10) - and then I get the impression that most new (tank) players either just don't understand the importance of it, or get stuck in their ways based on their lvl1-9 game or don't trust their healers enough to be willing to take damage from someone else..
Unless you *know* they can look and feel useless in SC's - and also in open world.. What is really needed imho is a 'mitigation' column to be added to the SC reults. Showing damage you reduced to others due to guard, challenge, CC's (maybe 5 seconds of average dps of the enemy you just cc'd?) and self-mitigation where you see the value of high toughness/armour..

But at the minute, it's an awkward chicken and egg situation.. People rolling tank or mdps have a bad time from lack of support in that front-line.

Also Order backline needs to learn to kite laterally rather than backwards so they can still support their meagre frontline..

[Fatpig]

Had great Saturday / Sunday on my choppa (T2-3), 6 man team, think we only lost one game all weekend (ironically, we got smashed in that one, very well played Order team).

Did get to the end of Sunday and felt a bit sorry for any orders that were queuing......But then again I thought, i'm an Orc......Chop away!

Fingg

[Biro123]

Also, how quick are the queues on Destro T1?

I have a theory on pug SC's... in that I heard that the matchmaker tries to create 2-2-2 teams..

I suspect that order getting smashed in SC's means less players queueing (I always get insta-pops) - so longer queues for Destro..
Which means that when there are enough order to form a SC team (12?), the matchmaker just throws in whoever happens to make up that 12.
Bu for Destro, if the matchmaker has a choice of a bigger pool of players (lets say 30) - so can use its logic to build a decent 2-2-2 team from those 30 players..

Result is that more often, destro teams have 4 healers, 4 dps, 4 tanks (yeah, their dps may face longer queues) - while order teams constantly have a complete and utter mish-mash.

[Fatpig]

not sure on T1 but later groups (2-3) there doesn't appear to be as many destroy healers. Tanks yes (if you include "dps" tanks)

[adamthelc]

I made a tank, SM, just to try to see how tanking feels.
It is the same fricking situation. Loss after loss after loss. All evening lost every SC.
You people seriously believe this is normal? or that it is my fault? season pvper in WoW (2100 rating ) or even oldies like Shadowbane. I do not want to seem arrogant at all, but that is out of the question.
This plague is affecting Order hard. I never get healed as tank. Never.
Also, Order apparently have no clue about the idea of killing healers.
The following scenario fits 98% of my sc runs:

Let's say Nordenwatch.
You start, you run towards Lighthouse. Obviously, 6 people will sit there because they have some distorted idea that they GET something out of it. They get nothing besides being late at Fort.
We reach fort. Their black orcs/mara/chosen go to flag, and from that direction push towards us and push us back on bridge.
We have 4-5 rdps be it engis or BW's or w/e...they all focus the tanks. The tanks literally NEVER die because behind them, at flag, they have 2 zealots, 1 dok and 2 shamans.
Then, because they have no clue that fort gives 1.5x more points ( something i found out in the first fricking day i played ), they all run to barracks. They take it.
Thus, we never manage to push towards Fort. Regardless, they are at lighthouse.
Game over.

I can write a scenario like this for every map, because it happened over and over and over again until i know how they will end. I feel like a prophet because i just know what will happen.
Also, i write and i try to explain strategies from what i've learned ( altough they are such simple tactics that it is almost pathetic to think about explaining it to someone older than 15 ). No one reads. Most people have no idea of /sc chat and they keep their chat tab selected on the main one, where everyone spams on /advice.
Even this simple detail creates issues. They never think about clicking on RvR for example, filters, and making it for a sc/rvr environment.
These are all things that any MMO player does in the 2nd day of playing a game, after getting a little feel.

Talking to me about rr40 and stuff..i will NEVER level so high at this rate. The only pleasant experience of progression was with the 2x xp event. It felt ok-ish even when losing and when you won you had a big boost of xp.

Right now, i tried all archetypes on Order. My wp is cr29, so i invested more into him than anything else. The situation does not change at T2.
I have no hope left, might quit the game because i do not want to play a faction that i totally dislike because of the disastrous situation Order experience.

I dare anyone who posted here to give this a try. Make a new order char, level to 8 and begin SC'ing. I can almost guarantee you will find every sc goes like i just wrote.

Don't get me started on more "difficult" SC's like the one with the altar and skull. People run past by it, they do not even know what to do.
The dam map with the bomb, a total mess, people are clueless.
The elf map with 2 flags and the bridge. No idea what is going on.
Just terrible.

I dont think anyone can help you.

[wraithghost]

Over the last few weeks I have been trying to figure out what to play, I originally thought like you that it was lack of melee/tanks that I lost all the time.

When I levelled a WP with a defensive healing shield build, there were no melee or no tanks and when there were, they just wailed on tanks.

I levelled an SM and IB, no one ever healed me, I guarded melee but they just wailed on tanks for the most part.

Then I levelled a SW and I could attack their healers although a lot of the time you can’t kill them, (because your damage isn’t great) they have to heal themselves and sometimes another healer heals them as well. I started to win a good few SC’s.

I also levelled a WH and the same as above but with better results although the class sucks as you can normally kill one or two then just die as you can’t escape and are made of paper.

I then tried an engi and it’s by far the best class I have tried I can put more pressure on their healers than anything else I tried and can dot others to keep em busy.

My conclusion is it’s not lack of melee it’s just people being crap at choosing targets, I have way better results carrying on an engi because I constantly switch targets put pressure on multiple targets and assist other DPS if they ever find the correct targets. You obviously get those few games where it’s mega imbalanced teams but that happens to destro just as much as order.

[Lesnoj]

For me playing a character that cant kill anyone and just running around and blocking hits and is a meat shield is very boring and uninteresting way how to spend your time. Even healers are more attractive to play than tanks. Maybe that’s the reason why we lack tanks.