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To all twinks

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: To all twinks

Post#61 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:14 am

traja7 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:54 pm
Detangler wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:02 pm I'm trying to help them out by giving them better stats! What's more welcoming than free stuff?
Are you giving free stuff to as many new players as you are rolling over in pvp? I am going to guess that it is not even close and that is what would be required for you to even out the damage that you do.

1. I havent been playing any non 40s for months now. Not "rolling over" any newbies - thats not really my idea of fun.

2. I've been playing my Chosen almost exclusively for the past 2 months. Not exactly doing swaths of damage on him lol.

3. I gave away for free probably 80 blue rank 8-12 talismans over the weekend to random players in t1 out of boredom, and have absolutely been stuffing the auction house with cheap blue talismans for sale for ranks 8 to 20. like 30 silver to 1.5g per talisman, or probably about 1/5 to 1/3 the price of the nearest talisman on sale. I'm not doing this for the mad cash that i don't even need. i'm trying to help out the new players.

Thanks for trying to paint me as someone I'm not with your snide comment, but you don't even know me.
Last edited by Detangler on Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

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Brew
Posts: 83

Re: To all twinks

Post#62 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:39 am

All the gear these players have is not hard to obtain, just need to do rvr or scs and buy it with currency. Talismans are easy to make, blues and purples to break down drop in pve like candy. These players are not "twinks", twinks are lowbies who vastly outgear their current tier because your main can obtain gear your twink can't.

As far as it being unfair or uneven, that happens, alot, even at max level. Don't think it will stop at rank 40.

Organized group play full of veteran players in mid tier scenarios is simple to explain: it is double xp, you can turn in the scenario quest for xp ONLY IF YOU WIN. Players want to level different toons when double xp is available, and you get way more xp if you win. SCENARIOS INCENTIVIZE YOU TO WIN.

I personally don't put on xp reducing scrolls, some people do, that is a different issue.

People don't queue scenarios to ruin your game experience, they queue to level. Get organised, learn the game, or do rvr instead of scs. Getting stomped in scenarios happens to everyone, at all levels. It has been happening since 2008, don't let it tilt you.
<Art Supplies>

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narvi
Posts: 15

Re: To all twinks

Post#63 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:32 am

traja7 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:43 pm It doesn't matter if you can justify the behavior or rationalize it. It doesn't matter if you offer to help individuals. None of that makes a difference. All that matters is that you are creating an unwelcoming environment and that will lead to people moving on from the game. Your opinion of how entitled or unreasonable those players are won't prevent it. Of course this is all rational if your goal actually is to reduce player numbers. Is it?

Veterans and a GM are trying to help out each in their own way, but you newbies are sticking to your skewed truth and are judging the situation only from your point of view.
I tried to give simple and to the point advice before in this thread, this time I will try to be more explanatory and offer a different perspective.

I am one of the people that ran those 2tank/2heal/2dd groups this weekend, and going through the thread I could see quite a few of them were about my group.
I didn't say premade, I said 2tank/2heal/2dd group because it was not more than that. Except for the two dps players, the group was always rotated from guild and LFG channel. We played with old and new players alike.
None of the toons in my party were twinks in the sense of World of Warcraft twinks. We were just buying scenario gear/weapons, using talismans worth max 1-2gold each, jewelries from vendors and random cheap 1-2g belts/cloaks from the auction house. I personally spent less than 40g for my level 1-40 journey. That's nothing even if you're not doing professions but just selling random greens you get.

We put the minimal effort we could possibly get by with. Only thing we did was play the game casually -tea in one hand, and explain how things work/what their roles are to new players we played with.
If you put yourself into my shoes and be objective for a minute, I'm sure you will realise I was merely enjoying a weekend of super chill gameplay while teaching the game/making new friends from the influx of new players.

_____________
Back to your argument about unwelcoming environments; this is a PvP game and no matter how you feel about it, there will be people performing better than you unless you're at the very top. This goes for me and you both. You might be new to this type of competitive gameplay, however no matter how the devs/GMs try to cushion its impact on new players, it's the truth of player vs player. You will get pooped on by a veteran in Tekken, SC, chess, checkers and marbles equally hard. On top of this, warhammer online is one of the harsher and unforgiving MMOs. If I put only as much as this weekends effort and go against a proper 6man team, we wouldn't pose a threat let alone do any real damage.

You are under the impression that when you get to high/equal gear levels with top players, things will be different -that you will be on the same level with the people that have put lots of time and effort into improving their play.
You will not be happy in this game unless you are okay with the fact that your success is directly proportional with how much you learn and improve. I am not saying this to reduce player numbers, it's just the reality of a quirky long-dead pvp game that is unlike the popular mmos of today that are tamed to cater to masses due to financial concerns.
Earning fights through improvement instead of living on participation trophy is a rewarding experience. Welcome to the server and please give effort a shot.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: To all twinks

Post#64 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:34 am

traja7 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:54 pm
Detangler wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:02 pm I'm trying to help them out by giving them better stats! What's more welcoming than free stuff?
Are you giving free stuff to as many new players as you are rolling over in pvp? I am going to guess that it is not even close and that is what would be required for you to even out the damage that you do.
The new players who ask ingame and very much appreciate any help do probably much better than you.
Maybe you should flood the forums less with your opinion and play the game to get better. Unlike you we don't post an opinion, we are talking facts learned by many years of experience and it would be wise to listen, when we offer help.
All your problems with fighting "premades", which often are not even set groups but random players, who queue again and just enter the same sc, can be solved rather quick.
For every single issue you are facing as a new player, there is a solution.
It's only a matter of experience and because you are lacking this knowledge as a new player, we offer you help, when you are willing to ask.
Enemies don't deal too much damage and kill you too quick, you are doing fundamental mistakes.
Instead of changing the game around you to fit to your lack of experience, try to learn the basics.
We can only offer you help.
Dying is no option.

sobanz
Posts: 6

Re: To all twinks

Post#65 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:22 pm

Brew wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:39 am All the gear these players have is not hard to obtain, just need to do rvr or scs and buy it with currency. Talismans are easy to make, blues and purples to break down drop in pve like candy. These players are not "twinks", twinks are lowbies who vastly outgear their current tier because your main can obtain gear your twink can't.

As far as it being unfair or uneven, that happens, alot, even at max level. Don't think it will stop at rank 40.

Organized group play full of veteran players in mid tier scenarios is simple to explain: it is double xp, you can turn in the scenario quest for xp ONLY IF YOU WIN. Players want to level different toons when double xp is available, and you get way more xp if you win. SCENARIOS INCENTIVIZE YOU TO WIN.

I personally don't put on xp reducing scrolls, some people do, that is a different issue.

People don't queue scenarios to ruin your game experience, they queue to level. Get organised, learn the game, or do rvr instead of scs. Getting stomped in scenarios happens to everyone, at all levels. It has been happening since 2008, don't let it tilt you.
That's a terrible definition. Twinks are spoiled chars that are vastly overgeared for their level. It has nothing to do with not being able to get it without a main, because the talismans I buy I cannot make myself. Anything you can't obtain on your lowbie you can obtain through gold, either by buying it outright or paying a higher level, with gold, to boost you. NItpicking at the definition is dumb these days when boosts are well known and a dime a dozen in any MMO.

Thing is, most inexperienced players will not have this gold and will just get dicked on their first time through by players who are not only more experienced than them, but vastly outgear them as well.

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narvi
Posts: 15

Re: To all twinks

Post#66 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:11 pm

sobanz wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:22 pm Twinks are spoiled chars that are vastly overgeared for their level.
sobanz wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:22 pm Thing is, most inexperienced players will not have this gold ... but vastly outgear them as well.
Completely wrong. People that have been beating your face to the ground in those scenarios have been explaining you what the deal is, how they are not twinks, and how you can correctly utilize game mechanics yourself as a new player without having to make/grind/craft for extra money. People even offered free talismans in this very topic.
You refuse to read and learn but continue your entitled whine.

All the information, the tools and a listening ear has been provided to you. You can still ask for clarification if we failed to communicate certain things. At this point the only thing holding you back is yourself and if you refuse to accept help but keep whining, there is nothing else we can do for you.

Don't transition from newbie to noob.

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Lischang
Posts: 16

Re: To all twinks

Post#67 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:49 pm

I sincerely hope that some of the new players that have read this post, learned something - got in contact with more veteran player or otherwise and started learning and improving. For the rest of you that can't seem to comprehend there ain't no handholding, I'll see you in midtier sc's this weekend :D
TUP

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: To all twinks

Post#68 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:56 pm

sobanz wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:22 pm That's a terrible definition. Twinks are spoiled chars that are vastly overgeared for their level.
I partly agree on your definition albeit I would call this min-maxing or being "twinked out".
A twink in general is just a new char, toon or character of someone.

What many here tried to tell you is, that this doesn't exist in T2-3.
Blue and purple gear of the same level is only slightly better than green stuff.
Talismans scale very poorly on rank, so lower ranked talismans of same rarity are almost as strong as higher ranked ones.
All important gear you get from vendors or as random drop, just by playing. There are no meaningful gear gaps between people on both ends of the bracket, because as long as the lower ranked player has all gear slots filled with items and at an appropriate rank, the bolster will do the rest.
People only doing pve will lack a lot items, because they only get random drops and quest rewards instead of visiting the vendors and fill the empty slots.
Ever seen people without 4 jewels despite being rank 7+? This is the kind of player I mean. Same with head and shoulders.

The gear is easy to get, it's a just a vendor, nothing gated behind obstacles only doable for premades and veterans.

The only gear gaps and twinked out chars existed on live servers in T1, when helm/shoulders were removed from drop tables. Only wealthy players were able to buy the few remaining items on auction house. Purple talismans were used there as well, because T1 was endless with trial chars and buying or crafting expensive talismans was ok, as you keep them forever.
Dying is no option.

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: To all twinks

Post#69 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:11 pm

sobanz wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:22 pm
Brew wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:39 am All the gear these players have is not hard to obtain, just need to do rvr or scs and buy it with currency. Talismans are easy to make, blues and purples to break down drop in pve like candy. These players are not "twinks", twinks are lowbies who vastly outgear their current tier because your main can obtain gear your twink can't.

As far as it being unfair or uneven, that happens, alot, even at max level. Don't think it will stop at rank 40.

Organized group play full of veteran players in mid tier scenarios is simple to explain: it is double xp, you can turn in the scenario quest for xp ONLY IF YOU WIN. Players want to level different toons when double xp is available, and you get way more xp if you win. SCENARIOS INCENTIVIZE YOU TO WIN.

I personally don't put on xp reducing scrolls, some people do, that is a different issue.

People don't queue scenarios to ruin your game experience, they queue to level. Get organised, learn the game, or do rvr instead of scs. Getting stomped in scenarios happens to everyone, at all levels. It has been happening since 2008, don't let it tilt you.
That's a terrible definition. Twinks are spoiled chars that are vastly overgeared for their level. It has nothing to do with not being able to get it without a main, because the talismans I buy I cannot make myself. Anything you can't obtain on your lowbie you can obtain through gold, either by buying it outright or paying a higher level, with gold, to boost you. NItpicking at the definition is dumb these days when boosts are well known and a dime a dozen in any MMO.

Thing is, most inexperienced players will not have this gold and will just get dicked on their first time through by players who are not only more experienced than them, but vastly outgear them as well.
I think you misunderstood the "currency" word. The gear players are using is not bought with gold. Almost all the set gear is earned from gold bags in orvr or medals you earn from orvr or scs. You can't buy medals with gold. You also can't wear anything above your actual character level and even if you go over your character level with renown you can't spend the extra points until you hit 40 anyways. Talismans that are higher level than the piece you want to slot it in also can't be done. The talisman has to be the same level or lower than the piece you want to slot it in.

You can't really twink out characters you can just make sure your gear is not falling behind by keeping your gear equipped as close to your level as you can. The first 3 tiers are very easy to get geared out quickly. If you are doing SCs you always get some emblems win or lose based on the points your team had so not giving up and trying to get as many points as you can is still going to get you more emblems. If i remember right you can get the t3 set (duelist) including weapons for about 160 emblems. If you are doing the SC quests and turning them in it is only 14 wins to get a full set. This would be the 25-29rr set. The gap between t3 and t4 set (merc set) is not that big and in the current sc brackets that is the max gear you are going to see.

If you put as much effort into the game as you do whining about some made up twink problem you might actually enjoy the game.
Trismack

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 8280
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Re: To all twinks

Post#70 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:18 pm

Bolster isn't working quite as effectively as it should at lower levels. We will likely have a fix for this during the weekend patch. Thought I might toss that out there as a potential data point for why things seem to have a broad difference in experience.
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