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City Siege Strategy

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gerard86
Posts: 71

City Siege Strategy

Post#1 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:21 am

ello everyone,

I am sure that by now most of you guys would have the opportunity of playing through a city siege, i thought i would start this thread to talk about the experiences in that scenario. This isnt meant to be a feedback thread, it is just meant to discuss some winning strategies which the forces of destruction or order can adopt.

On that note:

I played a city siege in a casually organised 12 man warband yesterday as destro and went up against what did not seem to be a order organised warband. So of course in phase 1 we tried to take the middle BO from them.

They had a strategy just to turtle and when we rushed them, they used concussive mine tactic from the engy and shatter limbs from the slayers to shut down all our AOE healing, we only managed about 300k or so of heals for the entire scenario.

Our cast times for aoe heals was around 5 seconds. and during this time they unloaded heavy burst on us which dont allow us to heal the incoming damage in any way.

We didnt have the chance to build morales because they were aggressive and engaged on us when we tried to build morales.I needed a M2 but they didnt let any of us get it at all.

As such, we lost really badly 200 kills to around 7 or 8 .

Would anyone be able to advise on a better strategy to use or how to counter this particular strategy which targets the healers?

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#2 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:16 am

Sure.

1. Get melee squigs who float in and out and spam cd increaser on anyone
2. Get 1 mara to drain 24 order player nonstop without counterplay
3. Get 2 choppas who spam get to the choppa 24/7
4. Be unbeatable to any possible order setup
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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wonshot
Posts: 1101

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#3 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:47 am

Without freely giving away all the 15year old tactics, I would just advice to join any of the usual warband leaders who have experience and ask them what they expect of your role. most of them I am sure will explain exactly what you should be doing, and if you do well you will probably be reinvited again :)

Many playstyles can work depending on leader, comp and playstyle preference.
Bombling 92BW - Bombthebuilder 82Engi - Bombing 82SL - Bling 81Kobs - Orderling 80WP - Jackinabox 67WH
Gombling 85mSH- Chopling 83Chop - Notbombling 82Sorc - Powerhouse 81Zeal - Goldbag 80Mara - Smurfling 75Sham -Blobling 66BO

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Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#4 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:01 am

kmark101 wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:16 am Sure.

1. Get melee squigs who float in and out and spam cd increaser on anyone
2. Get 1 mara to drain 24 order player nonstop without counterplay
3. Get 2 choppas who spam get to the choppa 24/7
4. Be unbeatable to any possible order setup
This is false. You need 3 Choppas and 2 Maras :P :D

Wish this wasn't true, but it is. Currently destro are simply unbeatable if they use this combination. Pop 3 chop, 2 mara, 2 mSH and a random 8th DPS, pop 4 Chosen and 4 BOrks with 2h, and it's pretty much over. You can even pass with 6 heals to add more DPSs, to which BOrks counts cause of the stupidly overpowered You Wot!?!!!, and win without breaking a sweat. No challenge nor risk, just rolfstomp.
Spoiler:

Direbloodykiller
Posts: 80

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#5 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:15 am

Ototo wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:01 am
kmark101 wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:16 am Sure.

1. Get melee squigs who float in and out and spam cd increaser on anyone
2. Get 1 mara to drain 24 order player nonstop without counterplay
3. Get 2 choppas who spam get to the choppa 24/7
4. Be unbeatable to any possible order setup
This is false. You need 3 Choppas and 2 Maras :P :D

Wish this wasn't true, but it is. Currently destro are simply unbeatable if they use this combination. Pop 3 chop, 2 mara, 2 mSH and a random 8th DPS, pop 4 Chosen and 4 BOrks with 2h, and it's pretty much over. You can even pass with 6 heals to add more DPSs, to which BOrks counts cause of the stupidly overpowered You Wot!?!!!, and win without breaking a sweat. No challenge nor risk, just rolfstomp.
@OP - this is all you need to read... honestly

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Nefarian78
Posts: 460

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#6 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:10 am

OP asked for strategies, not for a cascade of Order salt. Nobody cares about your tears.

@OP There isn't much strategy involved, it's about having the right WB composition and a good WB leader. Against a decent wb you're not going to win Stage1 in Altdorf unless you have 3/4chosens, 4 waagh BOs and 4 mSHs. That's the base requirement to get past the ungodly chokepoint that is Emperor's Circle.

You can get somewhat strategic victories in Stage 2, if you manage to kill their WP lord fast enough and manage to tangle their WB once they reach mid. It's rare though and it's unlikely to work against a wb that is being lead by someone decent, as it is obvious when Destro intends doing that.

Stage 3 is the most straightforward of them all. Let your enemy push and then punish them for doing so. You'll spawn closer and the opposite will happen to them. Have the tanks wall the entrances after wiping them and let the dps kill lord. That's really all there is to it, it entirely comes down to composition and leading.

Can't think of much regarding IC as there's been maybe two sieges total. What i can tell you is that it's much harder to defend stage1 compared to Altdorf due to IC being much more open and wide, with the exception of inside the citadel and the rock bridge leading to it. The wider areas can also make certain WBs better or worse though and may result in an easier or harder defense/attack. A Slayer heavy Wb will, for example, have a harder time in IC's mid BO compared to defending Altdorf's

Overall, i feel IC is much more balanced for both attackers and defenders. Altdorf is one chokepoint leading into the next which heavily favors the defenders in stage 1 and 2.
They done stole my character's names. Can't have **** in RoR.

zageen
Posts: 94

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#7 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:15 am

That's not a question of strategie , order doesn't adapt , you still base EVERYTHING on slayers, BW, KOTBS and WP, thinking it will be instawin.

We just understand that we have tools to counter the morales bombs : marauder
We understand that we have tools to counter WP and slayer and BW : CD debuff
We just understand that we have tools to counter bw : BO (aoe punt), chosen dmg reflect + silence on disrupt.

We just base our comp on it, now try to adjust to us maybe?
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Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#8 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:08 am

Nefarian78 wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:10 am Sh*t and jiggles
zageen wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:15 am MOAR sh*t and jiggles
Ok, this is funny... Care to share your hidden knowledge of what are order doing wrong against that setup? How can order adapt against it? Care to explain why a setup based around abilities is not an strategy? Moreover when your direct answer was "it's not strategy but warband composition"? Care to post a setup that can compete against destro one? I'm all ears, oh almighty ones...

I kindly invite you to play also order from time to time. Playing both here and there's not even colour. Destro characters are OP. And if you start with using 4 players to defeat one skill, think that is OP as hell instead of writing a sci-fi of how you will counter it.

LoL!! People speaking without a single idea of what they say! :D :D
Spoiler:

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#9 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:27 am

Defenders get the benefit of being able to funnel one entrance, meanwhile there are 4 actual entrance points to the mid area in both city sieges. You could even try split pushing and fake side attacks to confuse enemy so they cannot "mass funnel" all entrances.

Also, attackers get the benefit from having 30-50 mobs they can attack before entering mid area, which allows for building combat. If your tanks have shields, they can use HTL to stay in combat (I was quite surprised that quite many people did not know about this before our warband was accused of exploiting HTL to stay in combat). By the time you push mid, your BOs will launch M3 silences on healers, Chosens can drop M4 defensive morale or m3 Raze (Bellow rotation is quite effective as well).
Sorcs can rotate WWS quite efficiently as well. BO can use CD reducer to counter Slayers, as can Choppa. Healers under pressure should use m2 FM to pump faster heals and keep supporting each other in case of hostile melee pressure. (7 other heals can help that 1 healer who is taking too much dmg)
You can even add deeper cheese tactics with Shaman morale pumping, to classes like Choppa M4 or Squig M4. Order lacks good morale drains, so apart from wasting 1-2 spots on DG WHs, Destro will be free to build various morale arsenals which include Sorc m4 with unbreakable root, Squig massive M4 at 2400 dmg, ultracheese shaman pump + mara stack to reaching 8x m2 bombs within 10s of combat and blasting everything you see to oblivion, zealot self pumping to m3 bomb and silencing all enemy heals for 7!!!! seconds.

City fights are IMO surprisingly even considering the amount of cheese both sides can add to their arsenal, issue is that many pug warbands do not plan this deep, their main goal being limited to finding enough tanks and healers to survive in the first place.

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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: City Siege Strategy

Post#10 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:50 am

Aurandilaz wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:27 am Defenders get the benefit of being able to funnel one entrance, meanwhile there are 4 actual entrance points to the mid area in both city sieges. You could even try split pushing and fake side attacks to confuse enemy so they cannot "mass funnel" all entrances.

Also, attackers get the benefit from having 30-50 mobs they can attack before entering mid area, which allows for building combat. If your tanks have shields, they can use HTL to stay in combat (I was quite surprised that quite many people did not know about this before our warband was accused of exploiting HTL to stay in combat). By the time you push mid, your BOs will launch M3 silences on healers, Chosens can drop M4 defensive morale or m3 Raze (Bellow rotation is quite effective as well).
Sorcs can rotate WWS quite efficiently as well. BO can use CD reducer to counter Slayers, as can Choppa. Healers under pressure should use m2 FM to pump faster heals and keep supporting each other in case of hostile melee pressure. (7 other heals can help that 1 healer who is taking too much dmg)
You can even add deeper cheese tactics with Shaman morale pumping, to classes like Choppa M4 or Squig M4. Order lacks good morale drains, so apart from wasting 1-2 spots on DG WHs, Destro will be free to build various morale arsenals which include Sorc m4 with unbreakable root, Squig massive M4 at 2400 dmg, ultracheese shaman pump + mara stack to reaching 8x m2 bombs within 10s of combat and blasting everything you see to oblivion, zealot self pumping to m3 bomb and silencing all enemy heals for 7!!!! seconds.

City fights are IMO surprisingly even considering the amount of cheese both sides can add to their arsenal, issue is that many pug warbands do not plan this deep, their main goal being limited to finding enough tanks and healers to survive in the first place.
There is currently a bug being exploited more and more in each siege that allows either side to force themselves to be in combat and thus build up morales ready. Attackers and defenders can both easily start at M4 at which point it's just a competition over who can morale bomb on the middle point the best (hint: it's order due to being able to drop Solar Flares at the start). It's even being exploited openly by at least one streamer.

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