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Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

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zumos2
Posts: 317

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#1 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:31 pm

KotBS is the tank with best utility in the game. Both a must have pick for scenarios and warband play. However, its damage is the worst out of all tanks, so if you also want to be able to do high damage then KotBS is not for you. Swordmaster can do very reliable and high damage with the 2H on all classes because it mostly does magic damage. It also has some decent utility, which makes it also picked in warband play.
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- The Unlikely Plan / Dark Omen - Destruction

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Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#2 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:04 pm

tyresebro1 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:12 pm
1. What's the main playstyle differences here?

2. I understand both work in a sort of "group buffing" way in Scenarios.

3. Are there any major strengths and weaknesses comparing the two?

4. One is easier to level, one can easily swap to DPS, whatever it might be?

5. Super interested in both, but I'd like to begin with one for now. :)
1. KotBS is a pure defensive tank with strong group synergy. It doesn't shine in solo, nor even in small scale, as much as it shines in big fights. Also it's highly customizable via mastery trees. SM is a fragile tank in comparison, but deploys a lot of dps and mobility. Where the KotBS is static, even hieratic, the SM is swift, nimble and gracious. Also KotBS is a lot easier to learn to use properly, while SM requires a long learning experience. Based purely in skills, you need at the very least 2 Global CoolDowns to make even a basic snare in SM, so you really need to learn to plan ahead your enemy movements cause you lack a lot of instant utility.

2. In scenario yes. Both bring their own version of auras. The KotBS is a constant buff picked by the player, while the SM requires him/her to attack enemies to trigger it and had some level of randomness except for one skill that is guaranteed to trigger them. Also both can freely use 2handed weapons in scenarios, and that's where the SM shines the most, in small scale.

3. I think I have covered them so far, but let's comment and list fast.
* KotBS:
- Pros: extremely tough to kill, easy to use, powerful de/buff auras, super punt, AoE damage via reflection instead of via direct damage that prevents CC breaks, deftard, wounds debuff build-up in 2h weapons, can sustain horrendous amount of physical damage thanks to Perseverance and Stand Strong! being core skills.
- Cons: very low damage numbers even with 2h weapons, static, hard to maneuver in fights, extremely vulnerable to magic damage concentrations of firepower, worst solo tank, basically deals physical damage that is more widely mitigated by mDPSs and other tanks that are the things s/he is gonna be hitting, extremely AP hungry.
* SM:
- Pros: very mobile tank thanks to Wings of Heaven and positional combat, low reliability in classic tank stats allowing for diff builds, extremely powerful synergies with AM and WL, shines with 2h weapons and has great damage output with them, very resistant to magic with several shields available, its damage is mostly magical so is hard to mitigate by the front line enemies, good AoE potential, reduced AP costs in full rotation, only tank that is still durable with a great weapon, great solo tank, good core tactics supplemented by even better mastery ones leads to very good progression.
- Cons: lack of CC skills, fragile, requires to be attacking to trigger her/his group buffs, indiscriminate AoE skills that requires you to break fragile CCs to debuff your damage, mini AoE punt mostly useful to help enemies to get immunities so they can't be affected by better CCs, extremely hard to use properly, requires between 2 and 3 GCDs to perform even the most basic tank duties like snare or punt, expensive to gear up and potion hungry, situational awareness required even to fight 1vs1, very poor at countering.

To sum the most important points that picture the class the most:
- KotBS: easy to use, durable versus physical, static, AP hungry, low damage, best group tank thanks to buffs.
- SM: hard to use, durable versus magic, mobile, balance stances require a lot of planning ahead to perform, high damage and synergy with 2h weapons, best solo or small scale tank.

4. Both are super easy to level and have decent synergies, just with different things.

SM doesn't start to shine until level 21 or so, when you can finally get Protection of Hoeth and Bolstering Enchantments, that are the first good skills that the class gets, and it only shows its true colours once you hit level 32-40 and can use the full arsenal: Wall of Darting Steel, Wings of Heaven, Intimidating Blow, Whispering Wind, etc... in the mid time is not a boring class, but neither has the class nothing really special. Sure, it's funny to see people flying since level 16, but useless the vast majority of the situations, only serving the purpose to grant the enemy Immunity.

KotBS shines since the moment that you get your 3rd aura at around level 5-7. That's all its needs to start to show the colours. You may be still running in the zero level gear, and your class has by now group utility and synergy. Also it's so easy to use, with so many on-demand utility tools, that you will have a lot of fail-safes and fail-proof reliabilities for most situations.

5. KotBS is a lot easier to use. If it's your first tank it's the way to go. Don't think twice.

While SMs are a lot more rewarding in the long term, they are clearly a newbie-unfriendly class that requires a lot of things to work properly, not being the less a lot of gold to supply with talismans and potions the use of the 2h weapon and lose of durability. With KotBS just using Auras, Guard, HtL, Challenge and Shield Rush/Perseverance/Arcing Swing, and you are pretty much good to go even with empty tali slots, cause your auras work like on-demand talis to all affects, and have group-wide utility.
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orillah
Posts: 125

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#3 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:40 pm

I Have Knight and Swordmaster.

Strongly advise start with Swordmaster, far more interesting, versatile and less prone to nerfs.
Especially for solo playstyle.
Enemy looks in your General Direction. He deals 100000000000000 damage to you. And to your family. And to their pets. And to everything you've ever loved.
You have died.

Snoogens
Posts: 1

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#4 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:59 pm

That's creepy as hell that you copied my reddit post down to the dot :shock:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ReturnofReckon ... azing_sun/

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wargrimnir
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Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#5 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:36 pm

Snoogens wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:59 pm
That's creepy as hell that you copied my reddit post down to the dot :shock:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ReturnofReckon ... azing_sun/
These bots are getting slick. I thought it was one, but I didn't see any matching posts on the forums.
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Pottsy
Posts: 16

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#6 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:16 pm

Let me start by saying that both my KoTBS and SM are only lvl15 atm, at this level the SM feels less of a damage dealer than the KoTBS. In scenarios I notice it most with the Knight doing 20k more than the SM consistently.

So what changes, where is the leap in damage dealing?

One thing I did notice today when doing Sewers dungeon with my KoTBS (which is 17 now). The SM was the other tank and he managed to hold more agro than me, and we both tanked the heros equally well, maybe me a little easier, but this damage thing is a real hang up for me, because I would not like to continue with the Knight if its going to be a bad experience soloing etc.

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kmark101
Posts: 302

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#7 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:27 pm

Later on SM starts doing more spirit damage, while the KoTBS sticks to crappy physical damage with low stats (thx to Runefang nerf...) or elemental damage that noone on order can debuff for him (and he takes +15% damage from every source with this tactic... gg).

Hence the SM damage skyrockets later on, while the KoTBS damage, well, stays the same 20k for T4 as well.

(Also, a small comment, KoTBS is only "extremely tough to kill" with Vigilance, which is a skill at the top of the middle tree, hence further limits your build possibilities.)
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

Pottsy
Posts: 16

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#8 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:40 pm

kmark101 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:27 pm
Later on SM starts doing more spirit damage, while the KoTBS sticks to crappy physical damage with low stats (thx to Runefang nerf...) or elemental damage that noone on order can debuff for him (and he takes +15% damage from every source with this tactic... gg).

Hence the SM damage skyrockets later on, while the KoTBS damage, well, stays the same 20k for T4 as well.

(Also, a small comment, KoTBS is only "extremely tough to kill" with Vigilance, which is a skill at the top of the middle tree, hence further limits your build possibilities.)
Thank you for the reply Kmark, its saved me a lot of time finding that out earlier on. I see you are a IB in game? So I will have to check out some of your other posts, for a scroll through that tanking class 👍

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kmark101
Posts: 302

Re: Swordmaster vs Knight of the Blazing Sun

Post#9 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:28 pm

Pottsy wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:40 pm

Thank you for the reply Kmark, its saved me a lot of time finding that out earlier on. I see you are a IB in game? So I will have to check out some of your other posts, for a scroll through that tanking class 👍


Most of my posts are bashing idiots on forum or suggesting IB related tweaks, so if you are interested in those topics then gl :)
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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