Feedback: City Siege

[Xumae]

Unnecessarily dramatic title

[Hardkoar]

Yea sure, but people want to play where there are others. What's the point of me going alone into a lake where there might be 1-5 order while the other 500 are all in DW?

None sense really.

@ototo

[Collateral]

How to stop people from throwing zones (or at least reduce it)? Bump the new set prices to thousands of crests per piece and reward them for kills (only for killing 70+ players, or even 80+). Let people actually fight it out, do some damn pvp. Also, reduce the realm lockout to 45 mins so those who really want to be underdog can do it and help with balancing the sides, everyone will be happy for not playing empty instances.

[Ototo]

Yea sure, but people want to play where there are others. What's the point of me going alone into a lake where there might be 1-5 order while the other 500 are all in DW?

None sense really.

@ototo

That's a complete misrepresentation of what actually happens. What normally happens is that people build up population if numbers start to raise above the 2nd digit, so since there are 10 in a zone the numbers raise a lot faster.

Praag had like 10 players, but due to main zones being what they were, people migrated to avoid the boredom of l2p camping order AAO. We instead fought 50 vs 50 in Praag. We took the keep, then moved to catch the correct BOs, then lose the keep to a determined push, then recover it again, then lock Praag. Was exciting, unexpected, rewarding, and fun.

That was the 3rd zone where that something like that happened. If 50vs50 is not enough for you and being alone, that's fine, but there were no ghost-towns 11 hours ago, except boredom-lands were the zerg was PvEing their way to city. I enjoyed secondary zones, as usual, while instead I could have been 100% AFK in a main zone without any consequences, or contribution for the matter.

Being honest I may not be neutral in this point:
I'm still pissed off at what the big destro guilds were saying in /t4 chat. During both Thunder Mountain and Praag we were told that we were a distraction, useless, then all of a sudden to stop and wait for them cause we were winning and on the lords, working our asses through actual game play instead of overwhelming AoE numbers. I for myself will never ever again return to a main destro zone. It was the most humiliating and selfish display of ego that I have ever seen, and will stay away from them, and you probably should too.

How to stop people from throwing zones (or at least reduce it)? Bump the new set prices to thousands of crests per piece and reward them for kills (only for killing 70+ players, or even 80+). Let people actually fight it out, do some damn pvp. Also, reduce the realm lockout to 45 mins so those who really want to be underdog can do it and help with balancing the sides, everyone will be happy for not playing empty instances.

Not how it goes. Actually goes the other way around:
* Who gets more kills, the underdog or the upperdog? Clearly by a mile long the upper. And who has highest renown? Due to AAO rewards the under.
* The realm lockout is currently abused to create locks on time (part of my suspicion about yesterday constant calls for "too soon", "stop", and "not still" when a non-zerged zone was about to be conquered). It should be increased to 8 hours.
* The full thread is about people unhappy cause they can't play empty instances.

[Alucard2010]

As a primarily order NA prime player, I enjoyed the cities (even though we lost to teefz and gang) and there was a glitch that allowed it to be a 28 destro vs 24 order matchup. Apart from the imbalanced match (which we on NA order are used to in oRvR, was only fitting it carried over to cities), we all enjoyed a somewhat competitive match. Thanks so much for the hard work devs!

Now onto the issue at hand...I don’t feel bad for the Zerg realm. Malice should stay in place. You Zerg, you don’t get RP rewards for 10v1 manning someone. There has to be some incentive to fighting out in zones vs just sitting in city and queuing SCs. AAO and malice are good systems. The instancing of cities is good...fair fights - something we on order NA haven’t had for a very long time. (once they get the issue fixed of allowing >24 to enter bug fixed). Don’t like it, log onto the other side and balance things out for a change.

[Lithenir]

3. Numbers switch? Can change faction after 1.5 hrs to play outnumbered realm

because we have all the time in the world...

Let's be honest here. If this low timer keeps you from switching realm, changes for participating in a city siege is near zero.
We can count it out. If this timer limits you so much, your daily playtime must be around 2 - 3 hrs max. Meaning for getting into a city siege, the siege must open 1 hr after you logging on at max.
I guess there won't be many cities to siege for you then.

[wachlarz]

Spoiler:

play both sides... swap to underdog, don't zerg

it was 220 D vs 100 O at 3 am EU time... almost record numbers for destro at alarm o clock

Keeps got zerged, forts got zerged...

so should zerging be rewarded more than it already is? Maybe people should swap and play the underdog more and this would be less of a problem?

Its harsh for people to fight constantly outnumbered... and yes its harsh for you also when numbers was more even to draw the short straw and miss out on this occasion ... but you need to see it from both sides of the coin and see the one solution is playing the underdog side instead of people overstacking one realm... and it will swing back and forth as population does.

But maybe it deters a little bit of the alarm clock raiding which is soon to be a ever present like it was on live

sorry for your bad luck and better luck next time.

Let me think:

Fighters for balance.
1. Jumps on accounts to have AAO. (devs don't support this)
2. Always a lot of RR and medallions
3. Now guaranteed entry to the city.
4. Dress the character on one side, they can go to the other side.

Person playing on one account:
1. Plays on one account like devs want.
2. Medallions, RR sometimes good sometimes bad (1RR, no medalions)
3. I have to fight to enter the city siege.
4. I have to wait for my side dont zerg to dress up a character on one account.

Who is the victim here and who is the combinator?

1. I only have one account, play both sides whichever character I feel like. As I only have one I may be wrong, but, realm lockout is about IP instead of about account? I'm pretty damn sure that you can't log the other realm, even from different accounts, from the same IP address.
2. Underdog often rewards A LOT less medals, with the extremely rare exceptions of successful defenses and/or contribution roll. I repeat: EXTREMELY rare. Slightly more renown though, but nothing like the party that you make it sounds. You are fighting vastly outnumbered often, and for each kill you die a couple times.
3. City siege is not the PvE zergling that destro has been doing lately.
4. What's the point of this part? As underdog it will take you much longer to get full Invader, and you can't be seriously saying that a realm geared in Vanq and Conq is gonna rolfstomp the other that has double its numbers. Either delusional or directly rage-lie.

1. Ask guilds that switch sides, how they make this.
2. Wtf U talk? If i play zergin side i have ZERO medalions and 1rr per kill. U aoe spaming big blob have lot more rr per kill.
3. Its about ppl that switch sides to have 100% entry to City siege. Its not about who zerg destr o or order.
4. I dont know U playing this game. We have limit how many ppl can enter fort. So zerging side have too many ppl and ppl cant enter. So ZERO NOTHING NULL medalions for them.

[Ototo]

Spoiler:

Let me think:

Fighters for balance.
1. Jumps on accounts to have AAO. (devs don't support this)
2. Always a lot of RR and medallions
3. Now guaranteed entry to the city.
4. Dress the character on one side, they can go to the other side.

Person playing on one account:
1. Plays on one account like devs want.
2. Medallions, RR sometimes good sometimes bad (1RR, no medalions)
3. I have to fight to enter the city siege.
4. I have to wait for my side dont zerg to dress up a character on one account.

Who is the victim here and who is the combinator?

1. I only have one account, play both sides whichever character I feel like. As I only have one I may be wrong, but, realm lockout is about IP instead of about account? I'm pretty damn sure that you can't log the other realm, even from different accounts, from the same IP address.
2. Underdog often rewards A LOT less medals, with the extremely rare exceptions of successful defenses and/or contribution roll. I repeat: EXTREMELY rare. Slightly more renown though, but nothing like the party that you make it sounds. You are fighting vastly outnumbered often, and for each kill you die a couple times.
3. City siege is not the PvE zergling that destro has been doing lately.
4. What's the point of this part? As underdog it will take you much longer to get full Invader, and you can't be seriously saying that a realm geared in Vanq and Conq is gonna rolfstomp the other that has double its numbers. Either delusional or directly rage-lie.

1. Ask guilds that switch sides, how they make this.
2. Wtf U talk? If i play zergin side i have ZERO medalions and 1rr per kill. U aoe spaming big blob have lot more rr per kill.
3. Its about ppl that switch sides to have 100% entry to City siege. Its not about who zerg destr o or order.
4. I dont know U playing this game. We have limit how many ppl can enter fort. So zerging side have too many ppl and ppl cant enter. So ZERO NOTHING NULL medalions for them.

1. Can't address it more.
2. Still you get barely kills. Often the goal is to throw all people that you have in hopes that you kill one or two of theirs. That's usually a kill/death ratio of 2/12, if you are lucky enough to not face the main blob of the zerg but a side excision of it. If you constantly find 2 Warbands stacked together, you will be lucky if your 2 Parties can kill 2 of them. So you get 12 kills to spread among 48 players, while the other get 2 kills spread among 12. The upperdog realm has 1/4 chances of getting loot, while the underdog has 1/6. And as I said, this is being EXTREMELY generous. The normal k/d ratio is WAY lower, most likely in the 1/20 or so. So to balance things out, the only possible way is rewarding A LOT more the underdog, or they could never catch up nor vent the frustration.
3. This entire thread is based in why a zergling can't have empty city instances.
4. Defenders get nothing, but also feed the attackers, in NA prime time. They are so vastly outnumbered, that they can't contribute enough to qualify for rewards of any kind, cause they can't kill anything in a zone that has 150+ destros and 80- orders. Saying that aren't getting rewards for not entering is fine by me, I feel zero pity for them nor empathy for your comment. Saying that you are angered that people, THAT ACTUALLY GET NOTHING, are getting more than you is a complete lie. As opposed, all my praise to NA orders that enter Forts knowing full well that there is no way for them to kill enough destros to get even a single Invader medal, way less a bag. These people have my full empathy and sympathy.

[Samejima]

Having gear progression linked to campaign progression is interesting in theory but makes for flawed game design.

It incentivizes anticompetitive play (zerging/sandbagging/zone trading), exacerbates population imbalance and robs oRVR of a lot of its meaning/enjoyment. Zone pushing is now an annoying task to be completed as fast as possible (or to let others complete while you're logged off) in order to unlock the content you really want/need to progress.

In this instance, the overpopulated realm has been punished by the game design, and I can't help but feel a little satisfaction reading salty comments from people who faceroll their way through keep after keep, night after night. That said, I also understand their frustration, and how unsatisfying it must be to be told that the solution is to level and gear up a whole new character on the opposing faction and swap to that for city rather than play the characters/faction they prefer.

In the future, I expect we'll see more people grudgingly swap to the underpopulated realm for city as so many have suggested, but many of them will get there by pushing on the overpopulated side, making oRVR even more of a joyless roflstomp. The underlying issues will remain.

[Tenhi]

Problem: I want Sov/War on my Black Guard.

Proposed Solution: Create/level an Order Character.

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