Recent Topics

Ads

DPS DOK NERF

Let's talk about... everything else
retekelek
Posts: 102

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#111 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:30 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:57 pm
Pro-player levels of coordination however are a relatively minor consideration for balance (shock! horror! cringe!). If anything we watch what's being openly abused at that level to take it down notches when needed. Being at the top, in my humble experience with "top" players, usually means exploiting as much as you possibly can while (usually) staying within the lines of fair play. That being said, it's hard to take seriously whenever some super serious pro player gives us the details on what/how balance stuff should happen. Bias is a thing, and I'll take actual developers in a small group that I can trust over a ring-leader of organized clowns.

Average pug players are (again, whether or not you agree) a significant consideration for balance. They make up the majority of players on the server. Ignoring the pain points suffered by pug players leaves us with broken specs untouched for years because they're not good enough for organized groups so we're not allowed to touch them (for some reason?). Are they a driving factor in balance decisions? Of course not. Are they a consideration? Sure! There's so many considerations to be made for a lot of different changes it usually turns into a full conversation. Even for minor stuff! It's not shocking that you're going to rage about any piece of that conversation that you're not strictly aroused by. That's fine, you're clearly not made out for this, you certainly weren't involved in decision making, and by the sounds of it you wouldn't last long in such an environment anyway. I will happily reject your application in advance. RIP in peace.

I dont understand why is there a decent consideration towards pugs.
This game main feature that u can play solo/duo /3man /small party / 6man /12 man /wb-s and beside solo all other choice is about u play some kind of classes that have synergy toogether and can achieve things toogether. Considering ballances on people that cant evolve, join a guild, find friends to play toogether and learn how this game works, how to make party/wb setups is beyond my capacity of understanding. Its like a maraton run distance would be reduced from 42 km to 1 km, because the mayority of people can only run that far. Changes should be considered from a lot of different views before implementing/or do it whit a try out period, but not just observing it from 1 perspective (like this dok nerf because they topping solo rankeds)

i know you doing this on ur free time, and we playing here for free, but whats the long term outcome of this way of judgement? making the game simple and stupid enough that everyone that aint even want to try learn it will have success experience?

Ads
User avatar
wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 8280
Contact:

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#112 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:57 pm

retekelek wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:30 pm
wargrimnir wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:57 pm
Pro-player levels of coordination however are a relatively minor consideration for balance (shock! horror! cringe!). If anything we watch what's being openly abused at that level to take it down notches when needed. Being at the top, in my humble experience with "top" players, usually means exploiting as much as you possibly can while (usually) staying within the lines of fair play. That being said, it's hard to take seriously whenever some super serious pro player gives us the details on what/how balance stuff should happen. Bias is a thing, and I'll take actual developers in a small group that I can trust over a ring-leader of organized clowns.

Average pug players are (again, whether or not you agree) a significant consideration for balance. They make up the majority of players on the server. Ignoring the pain points suffered by pug players leaves us with broken specs untouched for years because they're not good enough for organized groups so we're not allowed to touch them (for some reason?). Are they a driving factor in balance decisions? Of course not. Are they a consideration? Sure! There's so many considerations to be made for a lot of different changes it usually turns into a full conversation. Even for minor stuff! It's not shocking that you're going to rage about any piece of that conversation that you're not strictly aroused by. That's fine, you're clearly not made out for this, you certainly weren't involved in decision making, and by the sounds of it you wouldn't last long in such an environment anyway. I will happily reject your application in advance. RIP in peace.

I dont understand why is there a decent consideration towards pugs.
This game main feature that u can play solo/duo /3man /small party / 6man /12 man /wb-s and beside solo all other choice is about u play some kind of classes that have synergy toogether and can achieve things toogether. Considering ballances on people that cant evolve, join a guild, find friends to play toogether and learn how this game works, how to make party/wb setups is beyond my capacity of understanding. Its like a maraton run distance would be reduced from 42 km to 1 km, because the mayority of people can only run that far. Changes should be considered from a lot of different views before implementing/or do it whit a try out period, but not just observing it from 1 perspective (like this dok nerf because they topping solo rankeds)

i know you doing this on ur free time, and we playing here for free, but whats the long term outcome of this way of judgement? making the game simple and stupid enough that everyone that aint even want to try learn it will have success experience?
Check your elitism, your blinders might be on a little tight there bud. I called them a consideration, of many considerations, as part of a conversation.
Image
[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

Flavorburst
Posts: 350

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#113 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:12 pm

Why do people keep thinking that this change greatly impacts dps doks in solo queue?

User avatar
zgolec
Posts: 753

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#114 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:59 pm

Kusunoki wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:16 am [Abilities]
DPS DoK: Curse of Khaine now only triggers off of direct damage abilities or autoattacks.




Congratulations, you just killed dps dok meta in warband play. Very bad decision.
I understand that Fell Sacrifice should not trigger Curse of Khaine, what is nonsense anyway because its cleansable.
Care to explain why Essence Lash and Devour Essence don't trigger Curse of Khaine anymore too? Those are clearly direct damage abilities. What a horrible mistake.
Devour essence just hits 4 targets, there is no need to nerf it.

Are you going to give Destro now a 15% heal increase tactic for the group, and a wounds buff for the group too?

Very disappointing.
Ahhh so now its pointless? Just as dps WP which suck in wb, 6man and basically anything? Yay.
Some more nerfs would be nice... Order still have not viable WL and SW for wb.
SM 82 / IB 82 / KOTBS 82 / WL 82 / WP 72 / SW 75
CH 77 / BG 6X / BO 6X / WE 6X / MAG 6X ...and others.

llanarkill
Posts: 1

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#115 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:56 am

roughly took 4-5 years to tone down wl and a few days to nerf dok's HD...can i get pounce or fetch on my shaman?

User avatar
Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#116 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:31 am

llanarkill wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:56 am roughly took 4-5 years to tone down wl and a few days to nerf dok's HD...can i get pounce or fetch on my shaman?
You have not been here that long.
Spoiler:

User avatar
zgolec
Posts: 753

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#117 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:33 pm

Ototo wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:31 am
llanarkill wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:56 am roughly took 4-5 years to tone down wl and a few days to nerf dok's HD...can i get pounce or fetch on my shaman?
You have not been here that long.
Owned.
SM 82 / IB 82 / KOTBS 82 / WL 82 / WP 72 / SW 75
CH 77 / BG 6X / BO 6X / WE 6X / MAG 6X ...and others.

retekelek
Posts: 102

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#118 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:46 pm

Secrets wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:39 am Just as an FYI, Rune of Nullification and Changer's Touch have been adjusted too for the next patch.

Hey, i thought ballancing means nerf/buff something if its over / under performing. For this announced change, aint see that consideration.

Where is the a big ballance problem whit the currant state of that 2 class aoe spec perfom in wb-s? Because a lot premade guild wb-s used 1 of them in their setup, aint think they were complaining about it. Also a lot preamde wb-s aint used that, and aint saw them complaining about it, if its too op, otherwise they would also use them, if it would be a big upperhand. So seems this change lack of needness. Just pushing game toward less variations and other problems that people already explained in this thread about that change.

Guild organised wb-s whit voice communication and consistent players base that know each other play style and whit taticali experinced wb leaders will always crush random/pug wb-s regardless aoe healdebuff classes exist or not.

This change should have been run through consideration before implementing, for its needness. i dont see a real point for doing it, rather than make the game less many-sided on WB setups. Also ruining those few players game, those grinded out pve gear + invader / sc weapons and rr70+ to do that role properly.

Ads
porter1234
Posts: 8

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#119 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:57 pm

retekelek wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:46 pm
Secrets wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:39 am Just as an FYI, Rune of Nullification and Changer's Touch have been adjusted too for the next patch.

Hey, i thought ballancing means nerf/buff something if its over / under performing. For this announced change, aint see that consideration.

Where is the a big ballance problem whit the currant state of that 2 class aoe spec perfom in wb-s? Because a lot premade guild wb-s used 1 of them in their setup, aint think they were complaining about it. Also a lot preamde wb-s aint used that, and aint saw them complaining about it, if its too op, otherwise they would also use them, if it would be a big upperhand. So seems this change lack of needness. Just pushing game toward less variations and other problems that people already explained in this thread about that change.

Guild organised wb-s whit voice communication and consistent players base that know each other play style and whit taticali experinced wb leaders will always crush random/pug wb-s regardless aoe healdebuff classes exist or not.

This change should have been run through consideration before implementing, for its needness. i dont see a real point for doing it, rather than make the game less many-sided on WB setups. Also ruining those few players game, those grinded out pve gear + invader / sc weapons and rr70+ to do that role properly.
i mean 2(mabye 3?) destro wbs ran a zdps and 1(mabye 2?) ran a dps rp, so its being nerfed because a possible total of 5 players in the whole server are playin this build/class in wb scale, but lets see how its gonna be nerfed 1st, mabye proc chance is just less and its still viable or if its made to only proc on single target skills guess those 5 op players gonna reroll

retekelek
Posts: 102

Re: DPS DOK NERF

Post#120 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:20 pm

porter1234 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:57 pm
retekelek wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:46 pm
Secrets wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:39 am Just as an FYI, Rune of Nullification and Changer's Touch have been adjusted too for the next patch.

Hey, i thought ballancing means nerf/buff something if its over / under performing. For this announced change, aint see that consideration.

Where is the a big ballance problem whit the currant state of that 2 class aoe spec perfom in wb-s? Because a lot premade guild wb-s used 1 of them in their setup, aint think they were complaining about it. Also a lot preamde wb-s aint used that, and aint saw them complaining about it, if its too op, otherwise they would also use them, if it would be a big upperhand. So seems this change lack of needness. Just pushing game toward less variations and other problems that people already explained in this thread about that change.

Guild organised wb-s whit voice communication and consistent players base that know each other play style and whit taticali experinced wb leaders will always crush random/pug wb-s regardless aoe healdebuff classes exist or not.

This change should have been run through consideration before implementing, for its needness. i dont see a real point for doing it, rather than make the game less many-sided on WB setups. Also ruining those few players game, those grinded out pve gear + invader / sc weapons and rr70+ to do that role properly.
i mean 2(mabye 3?) destro wbs ran a zdps and 1(mabye 2?) ran a dps rp, so its being nerfed because a possible total of 5 players in the whole server are playin this build/class in wb scale, but lets see how its gonna be nerfed 1st, mabye proc chance is just less and its still viable or if its made to only proc on single target skills guess those 5 op players gonna reroll
ok mabye u miss understood the core of my post, that a nerf / buff should come for ballance if it has a purpose. Like this nerf should be implemented becuase this class so op that everyone using it in any wb setup. u also just higlighted that its not the case.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Flowson and 43 guests