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Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

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xarax
Posts: 115

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#11 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:13 pm

AP Drain:
SM: Sapping Strike, 50AP over 5 sec, Khaine mastery skill
That yellow „Knochen“ guy
BO RR73+
Dok RR82(retired) - BG RR79(nearly retired) - Choppa RR70(retired)

and tooooo many alts

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Tanski
Posts: 66

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#12 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:34 pm

It’s a tough call. WP, BW, Slayer and Kotbs all outperform their Mirrors in wb play, but the morale pumping and draining that destro has is a little too strong perhaps. Especially when destro premades just run around in 4 wb zerg deathballs. I don’t see how that’s fun but to each their own .
Tanski- RR65+ Choppa
Tanskeeh- RR70 + BG
Tanskey- 50+ Swordmaster
Tanski 50+ WL
Tanskee 60+ Sorc
Tanskiey 60+ BW
WoM- Order
Whispers of Mutiny- Destro

Direbloodykiller
Posts: 68

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#13 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:47 pm

Fenris78 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:29 am
- Morale Drain : 4 Order / 3 Dest = Maybe slight imbalance here.
it's even more of an unbalance in real play
here it looks like its a favor for order side which isn't anywhere near the thruth:

Order:
BW: Burning head M4 600morale drain 20feet. Requirements Mastery M4 -> outside funnel situations - never able to be used due to mara drain
Knight: Solarflare M4 Drains ALL morale in 30feet. (ONLY ability with the only 9target aoecap apart from slayer/choppa tactic) Requirement: Mastery M4 -> outside funnel situations - never able to be used due to mara drain
WH: Dragongun finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet -> mirror to WE
SM: 28morale over 12sec. Aoe M4 (never seeing use) Requirement: Mastery M4. -> never used
WH: 25%chance 225 morale drain. Requirement: BACKATTACK. Mastery tacticslot. -> never used

Destro:
Mara: 25%chance to drain 225morale. Requirement: Monstro stance. Mastery tacticslot. -> over used
Mara: Prevent all morale gain for 5sec. 40feet aoe cone 10sec cooldown. Requirement: Mastery ability + Brutality Stance -> over used
WE: On Your Knees! finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet -> mirror to WH
BO: Yer Nothin M4. Targets lose 30sec of Morale over 12seconds 30feet aoe. Requirement Mastery M4. -> never used
BO: Singletarget 6% morale drain. Requirement: Tacticslot. Spamable ability. -> used

conclusion it's more like 1 order (wh)/4 destro

Direbloodykiller
Posts: 68

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#14 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:48 pm

Tanski wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:34 pm
It’s a tough call. WP, BW, Slayer and Kotbs all outperform their Mirrors in wb play, but the morale pumping and draining that destro has is a little too strong perhaps. Especially when destro premades just run around in 4 wb zerg deathballs. I don’t see how that’s fun but to each their own .
hey dude, i like to ride the mass

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Ototo
Posts: 967

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#15 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:51 pm

It has been a balance problem for a while, tolerated cause of the supposed "low damage for a DPS" of the Mara, and the "it's the only viable option" excuse for the BO, and "[add your whine here]" for [add your unbalanced drain/pump class here]. Sounds stupidly simple and one sided? Yup, cause it is. Most of the unbalanced classes are destro, and have a name: Mara.

Mara drains need a hit with the nerf bat, period. Move them to an M4, or as has been suggested make them % in crit.
Spoiler:

Popcornus
Posts: 18

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#16 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:16 pm

Instead of arguing for the reinvention of wheels, you could argue for standardisation by means of existing (preferably 'true and tested') 'tech' - if you argue for changes at all.

Most relevant procs have received the same treatment: ICDs.

It's 'tech' that is already there, so reutilize it instead of pouring more time and effort into what might just end up as a bugridden/balance mess that needs several fixes, or a complete reimplementation/substitute.

--
EDIT: For clarification's sake:
(tech) standardisation != mirroring

I refer to interactions between mechanics, their inner workings and the math behind the mechanics in question (i.e.: totals, uptime, feasibility/viability).
Not everything that exists (and is listed here) is bound to see any actual use whatsoever.
--

Efficiency and consistency should be prioritised, especially if the time required and spent is neither yours, nor properly compensated for.
Last edited by Popcornus on Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Elvenis
Posts: 17

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#17 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:22 pm

A little addition, Shaman tactic "Get Movin" adds 150 morale on hit to all party every 10sec, but combined with "Ere We Goes Again" it is twice that value, 300/10sec, the best Party Moral Pump actually in game (beside to mara's, maybe, but as a shammy you do not need to go for a specific spec to get it)

blechkautz
Posts: 43

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#18 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:41 pm

wonshot wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:47 am


AP Drains:

Order:
AM: 180ap drain Singletarget over 9sec. Standard ability.
AM 92ap drained within 20feet of your target AoE over 9sec. Requirement Tacticslot.
WH: 20Ap steal on bulletbuff. ST/AoE

Destro:
Shammy: 180 ap drain Singletarget over 9sec. Standard ability.
Mara: 50%slower ap regain for 10sec Singletarget 20sec CD. Requirement Savegery stance + Mastery ability.
Mara: Drain 40AP on Crit over 3sec. Requirement Mastery Tacticslot + stance
BG: 20ap drain on Singletarget for 10sec per ability they use. Requirement Mastery ability 20Hatered on use.
WE: 20Ap steal on 25%chance on Kiss.
BO: 50ap drain over 5sec. 10sec cooldown. Requirement Masterpoint ability, stancedance.
Am aoe ap drain is bugged fyi. It only drains 30 instead of 92 atm.

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Collateral
Posts: 1494

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#19 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:05 pm

Why this stupid crap about morales again? Did we really need this thread? I know forums are dead but come on, this is not the way to revive them really.
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Sapblatter
Posts: 13

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#20 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:31 pm

I never normally get into lost about this but i'm trying to look at this from a player who plays both sides.

I'm seeing a lot of people saying how destro has so many more morale drains than order, while i'm not deny that destro might have more morale drains than order in a open pvp zone but we cant forget that generally order are better defensive than destro ( you just need to look at skills and tactic) and must play to there strengths.

From a player who plays from 6 man to warbands, and when i say warbands i don't mean pug ones.
I will just copy and paste from a post a person above me and just edit what i think is correct,
Order:
BW: Burning head M4 600morale drain 20feet. Requirements Mastery M4 -> outside funnel situations - never able to be used due to mara drain Maybe not the best morale in open pvp but very powerful in areas where order excel in (being defensive). This morale could work brilliantly with knights in funnel situations.
Knight: Solarflare M4 Drains ALL morale in 30feet. (ONLY ability with the only 9target aoecap apart from slayer/choppa tactic) Requirement: Mastery M4 -> outside funnel situations - never able to be used due to mara drain
Maybe not that good in pug warbands but in a premade warband, where order are able to be defensive (funnel) this is really powerful, you would only need one of these but imaged stripping all the tanks of destro on morale just as they about to push into a funnel. Destro tanks would just melt in seconds.
WH: Dragongun finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet -> mirror to WE
Might get some use in pug wb's but generally that are never that coordinate to make use out of it, should never really see a witch hunter in premade warbands.
SM: 28morale over 12sec. Aoe M4 (never seeing use) Requirement: Mastery M4. -> never used
Same as the black ork, theres much nice m4's to use.
WH: 25%chance 225 morale drain. Requirement: BACKATTACK. Mastery tacticslot. -> never used
Pretty terrible and couldn't see any use for this out of solo

Destro:
Mara: 25%chance to drain 225morale. Requirement: Monstro stance. Mastery tacticslot. -> over used
Very good skills and one of the main reasons why you see maras in wb's
Mara: Prevent all morale gain for 5sec. 40feet aoe cone 10sec cooldown. Requirement: Mastery ability + Brutality Stance -> over used
Can't really see this being used in warbands due to most maras playing monstro and not enough points to get this skill.
WE: On Your Knees! finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet -> mirror to WH
Might get some use in pug wb's but generally they are never that coordinate to make use out of it, should never really see a witch elf in premade warbands.
BO: Yer Nothin M4. Targets lose 30sec of Morale over 12seconds 30feet aoe. Requirement Mastery M4. -> never used
As the person said, should never be used, generally a better option out there.
BO: Singletarget 6% morale drain. Requirement: Tacticslot. Spamable ability. -> used
Will never be used on a black ork in wb play, maybe a solo roaming 2h black ork but never in a wb scenario.

Open pvp: Destro 1, order 0
Defensive positions: Destro 0, Order 2 (the reason why i put destro as 0 for funnel/defensive positions is due to the logic when pushing into the funnel, it should be tanks first and then followed by melee, by the time the melee start to enter the funnel most of the important morale skills should of been used)

I'm sure not everyone shares the same views as myself but as i said before, a player who played on both sides i feel i can have a fairly unbiased opinion.

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