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WHY nerf Runefang???

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#61 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:33 pm

Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:12 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:47 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:23 pm Ok, gonna be fast:

Toughness = capped very low. Even with basic tank gear and zero talismans you are probably over the cap and able to absorb reductions in every tank of the game.

Parry = capped very high. Extremely difficult to get even stacking max talis. Here is where tactics go if you have the chance.

Init = very impactful stat. Even with a low amount you get a lot of return, most of which you probably don't even need even to counter enemy DPSs own crit.

So far you could go str in KotBS and Chosent and it would work decently. Now in KotBS you need both str and WS to counter it, and init is pretty trashy if you have renown skills, so 2 out of 2 stats from Runefang are nearly pointless. That is why it's a crap tactic and you would never spend the mastery points and the tactic slot. Nobody in his own mind would do.

I'm not even gonna enter in the skill part; you listed 9 skills using magic damage, and 2 more that you can convert. That's "several" to me.
So you are saying you are capped toughness at 1050 without talismans in basic tank gear? I find that very hard to believe unless you are playing a blackguard.

The only dependable parry in rvr against other players is from renown and gear. The parry from WS is not dependable when facing players with str higher then your WS.

Ini is very effective because you can go into the negative crit chance even though you can't see it and have to do the math yourself. Also if you can get enough stats from gear like negative chance to be crit and not have to spend renown on that it opens up more options like being able to dump those points towards crit chance for yourself.
Cap is 700 something. It was changed. Be my guest to find it, cause search seem to give me a gateway timeout now: https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... ghness+cap

No.

I can do the math, but you can't if you think that it works how you described in your posts.
The cap is not 700 for toughness. You need to go reread the patch notes. Toughness is capped at 75% mitigation that doesn't mean it is capped at 700.

But please enlighten me on what i am wrong on. I would like to know how you think it works and maybe we can get someone who codes the game to comment on what is right or wrong?
Trismack

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Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#62 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:38 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:33 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:12 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:47 pm

So you are saying you are capped toughness at 1050 without talismans in basic tank gear? I find that very hard to believe unless you are playing a blackguard.

The only dependable parry in rvr against other players is from renown and gear. The parry from WS is not dependable when facing players with str higher then your WS.

Ini is very effective because you can go into the negative crit chance even though you can't see it and have to do the math yourself. Also if you can get enough stats from gear like negative chance to be crit and not have to spend renown on that it opens up more options like being able to dump those points towards crit chance for yourself.
Cap is 700 something. It was changed. Be my guest to find it, cause search seem to give me a gateway timeout now: https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... ghness+cap

No.

I can do the math, but you can't if you think that it works how you described in your posts.
The cap is not 700 for toughness. You need to go reread the patch notes. Toughness is capped at 75% mitigation that doesn't mean it is capped at 700.

But please enlighten me on what i am wrong on. I would like to know how you think it works and maybe we can get someone who codes the game to comment on what is right or wrong?
Honestly, I expected this since moment one with you. I knew you would never believe it, so I was pre-bored af at the idea of trying to explain it, specially something long like is init and crit rate. Check for yourself and bye.
Spoiler:

User avatar
Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#63 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm

Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:38 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:33 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:12 pm

Cap is 700 something. It was changed. Be my guest to find it, cause search seem to give me a gateway timeout now: https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... ghness+cap

No.

I can do the math, but you can't if you think that it works how you described in your posts.
The cap is not 700 for toughness. You need to go reread the patch notes. Toughness is capped at 75% mitigation that doesn't mean it is capped at 700.

But please enlighten me on what i am wrong on. I would like to know how you think it works and maybe we can get someone who codes the game to comment on what is right or wrong?
Honestly, I expected this since moment one with you. I knew you would never believe it, so I was pre-bored af at the idea of trying to explain it, specially something long like is init and crit rate. Check for yourself and bye.
Took me 5 mins to find this please tell me where it says toughness is capped at 700 stat? Below was posted by Nath on 22/12/2018 patch note changes about toughness.

Before todays change with enough toughness you could literally take only 1 damage from everyone just by stacking toughness. What it means is that the calculations are exactly the same as before but it now caps out at mitigating 75% of the incoming damage before handing over to armor or resistances.

I don't think you really know how stats work in rvr calculations and is why you won't post how you think it works.
Trismack

Hat
Posts: 48

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#64 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:52 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:38 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:33 pm
Spoiler:
The cap is not 700 for toughness. You need to go reread the patch notes. Toughness is capped at 75% mitigation that doesn't mean it is capped at 700.

But please enlighten me on what i am wrong on. I would like to know how you think it works and maybe we can get someone who codes the game to comment on what is right or wrong?
Honestly, I expected this since moment one with you. I knew you would never believe it, so I was pre-bored af at the idea of trying to explain it, specially something long like is init and crit rate. Check for yourself and bye.
Took me 5 mins to find this please tell me where it says toughness is capped at 700 stat? Below was posted by Nath on 22/12/2018 patch note changes about toughness.

Before todays change with enough toughness you could literally take only 1 damage from everyone just by stacking toughness. What it means is that the calculations are exactly the same as before but it now caps out at mitigating 75% of the incoming damage before handing over to armor or resistances.

I don't think you really know how stats work in rvr calculations and is why you won't post how you think it works.
Don't bother, he's either a troll or completely clueless about anything he says. Every single post he makes contains misinformation and or complete guesses and if you call him out on it he likes to pull the "I was merely being sarcastic" card.

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Marawo
Posts: 111

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#65 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:26 pm

Old runefang allowed you to choke out 3 melee dps at a reasonable time solo.
The tactic had the biggest impact in solo play, it let you spec deftard and still let you have enough damage output to smack any nonhealer/regentank in smallscale.

runefang had almost 0 value in wb play, anyone saying muh guard parry doesn't know that WS doesn't count towards guard parry.
only a 2h debuffknight would use it, but you can fix your parry strikethrough by flanking your enemy, you dont play 2h knight in wb for the damage it provides but the debuffs.

the new runefang is very strong in largescale, it just makes knight not that good of an option as an assist dps for their guarded target, the buffs and utility you provide for that format are still the same.
Solo roam should be out the gate until Mighty soul gets fixed but that's a seperate issue imo
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#66 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:38 pm

Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:12 pm
Cap is 700 something. It was changed. Be my guest to find it, cause search seem to give me a gateway timeout now: https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... ghness+cap

No.

I can do the math, but you can't if you think that it works how you described in your posts.
Does it hurts, when I say r40 cap is still 1050?
Dying is no option.

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Armoz
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Posts: 49
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Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#67 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:25 pm

Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:31 pm
Armoz wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:17 pm

TL;DR "I'm not trying to insult people but..."
You're really good at taking things out of context! Keep at it
Yup, I'm extremely good at taking out of context the words "stupid", "lazy", etc...
Good job

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Gangan
Posts: 652

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#68 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:29 pm

heybaws wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:36 pm You needed extra parry to evade guard damage both in RvR and smallscale. God this thread analytics is beyond garbage. Perfect example why devs shouldn't drop they ideas here for open discussion.
Found this in an older thread about how to parry guard DMG

"Guard defense is capped at 25% for parry because guard damage is calculated as 0 str, with only 4 points in Weapon skill you will have max chance to parry guard damage"

Not sure how accurate this is though.
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Marawo
Posts: 111

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#69 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:56 pm

Gangan wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:29 pm
heybaws wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:36 pm You needed extra parry to evade guard damage both in RvR and smallscale. God this thread analytics is beyond garbage. Perfect example why devs shouldn't drop they ideas here for open discussion.
Found this in an older thread about how to parry guard DMG

"Guard defense is capped at 25% for parry because guard damage is calculated as 0 str, with only 4 points in Weapon skill you will have max chance to parry guard damage"

Not sure how accurate this is though.
almost, the way this is worded is a bit misleading.

basically WS is irrelevant for your parry rate on guarddamage, you parry rate for WS on guarddamage is set to 25% due to these 0str/4ws shenanigans in the code.
your parry rate for guard is capped at 75% like any other avoidance.

so lets say you have 10% parry from ws and 20% from gear/renown
then your guardparryrate would be 25% from the 0str/4ws guard calculation and 20% from gear/renown. you would parry guarddamage at a rate of 45%.

avoidance buffs/debuffs flow into this calculation in.
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Arbich
Suspended
Posts: 788

Re: WHY nerf Runefang???

Post#70 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:14 pm

Marawo wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:26 pm Old runefang allowed you to choke out 3 melee dps at a reasonable time solo.
The tactic had the biggest impact in solo play, it let you spec deftard and still let you have enough damage output to smack any nonhealer/regentank in smallscale.

runefang had almost 0 value in wb play, anyone saying muh guard parry doesn't know that WS doesn't count towards guard parry.
only a 2h debuffknight would use it, but you can fix your parry strikethrough by flanking your enemy, you dont play 2h knight in wb for the damage it provides but the debuffs.

the new runefang is very strong in largescale, it just makes knight not that good of an option as an assist dps for their guarded target, the buffs and utility you provide for that format are still the same.
Solo roam should be out the gate until Mighty soul gets fixed but that's a seperate issue imo
Did the new runefang gets better with points invested in tree?
Why was the old runefang (core, 3 stats buffed) worse than the new runefang (not core, 2 stats buffed)? I don´t get it.
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