Is Magical dmg broken and Overpowered?

[hammerhead]

At the very beginning of the game, the formula lowered the hardcap of the resist, either because all the auras worked together or for other reasons. To compensate, they increased the healing power and this started a war between healing and damage, which nerfed tanks can only silently watch.

[adamthelc]

Magic dmg so high, some casters just stack armor/toughness talis and gg.

The mechanic of magic resist is broken.

Physical dmg can easily get 80%+ reduction, however, magical dmg just can get 40%+ reduction by no deduction of stacking resist.

It's not broken that's the way it was designed. You not liking it doesnt make it broken. Both resists and armor can be debuffed, but there is no stat that gives resist penetration like ws gives armor penetration.

Magic damage is designed to hit every class roughly the same, though people will have different levels of toughness and chance to defend. Physical damage is designed to hit softer targets harder.

It's not a difficult concept. Why do some people feel the need to come and cry about something so fundamental because they died?

If you have a problem with the damage a specific class can do, cry about that. Magic damage is working as intended, it's not broken so please stop making such an ignorant complaint.

[adamthelc]

someone say me is squish but a tank never squish to the melee. I die for those sorc and magus and those sham and zealot when they see me especially the healer focus me to magic. Then order stupdly say "Chinesehero is squish"
Come on I am using full bloodlord set nearly 4500 armor. but the game is designed for magic player. their attack have too strong dots even u run away u still die out. the reason why no on stack resist talis is that most dps class is physical dmg and no one did that
but i just say magus and sorc VS BW. Destro got some advantage on it. dont say about SM, a tank still not a dps. u cant compare a sm 'dmg to a well gear good build magus or sorc

PS: many order rp dont use resistance buff on tank and even am "forgot" use their resistance shield even kotbs dont activate the resistance buff. I always ask that on WB but rp still give u a str buff which cant stack with ur str pots. A small difference already make the lose of order and the success of Destro

If a SM is not a dps and the fact that they do magic damage is irrelevant why not just take all of their magic damage away. It doesnt matter right? I get that you want to complain about how much magic damage and not have the complaint shoved back in your face, but "a tank still not a dps." isnt going to cut it.

Seriously a SM complaining about magic damage? You cant make up how ridiculous some of these comments are.

[Ototo]

Magic dmg so high, some casters just stack armor/toughness talis and gg.

The mechanic of magic resist is broken.

Physical dmg can easily get 80%+ reduction, however, magical dmg just can get 40%+ reduction by no deduction of stacking resist.

It's not broken that's the way it was designed. You not liking it doesnt make it broken. Both resists and armor can be debuffed, but there is no stat that gives resist penetration like ws gives armor penetration.

Magic damage is designed to hit every class roughly the same, though people will have different levels of toughness and chance to defend. Physical damage is designed to hit softer targets harder.

It's not a difficult concept. Why do some people feel the need to come and cry about something so fundamental because they died?

If you have a problem with the damage a specific class can do, cry about that. Magic damage is working as intended, it's not broken so please stop making such an ignorant complaint.

The mechanic is called Reduce Resistence, and most of the classes include one for its damage type.

Phys damage was designed to be widespread along most classes, and specific damages were to be exceptional and restricted to few classes and skills. A few patches later even rats in Norsca were dealing some form of special damage attacks... Also magic casters were kings at the start in raw numbers, which pretty much made all idea of "there will be equal numbers of each of the classes" a fail. Not having a tank in Empire/Chaos, and later getting one which introduced the aura resist buff/debuff mechanic just further extended the trouble. Now all classes needed to be able to deal damage with their magic attacks, even classes designed around tank dmg numbers, and must be able through a group buff aura.

Don't try to minimise the thread using a completely false argument. We are speaking and we have all died to all enemy classes. That's the way it is, not the way it is balanced.

In fact, Hammerhead remembers and explain the mistake in that last paragraph.

[kam19080]

So can anyone tell me why this server's normal usage of toughness differs from the official server?

Toughness is the stat of mitigation of all types of dmg instead of just dots dmg as the explanation of the stat.

Also, nearly no one wants to stack toughness in this server. It's because anyone knows that toughness is nearly useless in dmg mitigation.

The usage of toughness is so small, as for against magical dmg (even all dmg), resist seems a one way for the mitigation of it....

However, whatever u stack 1000+ resist, u also get melt by magical dmg...

[kam19080]

its like people forget all the "rock paper scissors" design this game used to have
magic melts tank
tank wins vs melee
melee dps kills magic caster

sure, magic caster can kill melee too, but a proper melee train lands on a magic dps that has no guard, and it goes poof in 2 seconds.
every class has counter to something, and weak spot to something.
even mara that ignores enemy armor pen, melts to magic
BW. that melts tanks, dies when ganked by a WE
Sorc, that melts tanks, dies when ganked by a WH
tanks will outlast a melee dps in 1v1 fight due to stacking defences (except for slayers lul), and mostly win by surviving the clash of swords better

Sure, the scissors have been nerfed, the rock may be buffed and the paper wet at times. But every class has something that counters something - and is weak to something.
(original WE/WH gank burst was way higher - and even original magic bomb dmg way higher - most classes have had quite numerous nerfs, now balance stems from who has been nerfed least)

I just partly agree with you.

However, how comes a tank is a tank. Its because the tank should have the best survival ability against any types of dmg, even magical dmg.

When my BW friend told me, he can hit a chosen with 1200+ and just 200+ to sorc with the same ability.

Its so ridiculous. A magical caster is tanky than the tank.

[Bozzax]

They decided to cap reduction from toughness to 75% of the damage. Exessive stacking BGs could reach omfg levels.

Part from that it is same as live (Flat reduction).

Btw no magical damage never was and still isnt op. Your example is **** and absolutly bs.

Chosen
superior passive resist aura
Elemental resist tactic (not good)
Absorbs tactic
Absorb morale M3
Reduce crit tactic (very good vs BWs)
HTL (best ability vs any caster)
Challenge
Taunt
-15% damage reduction ability
+25% disrupt ability
Shield (unless you decide to be less tanky)
Much more natural toughness

Sorc
20% reduced damage morale M2 (no the M1 reflection is ****)
Resist ability (ok I guess but you can ask Sorcs if they would trade it for BW armor guess what)
Absorb on proc tactic (no one would ever use this)

If a tank decides to be a weak dps he becomes squishy and if sorc decides to be tanky he becomes irrelevant (squishy and no damage)

[adamthelc]

The mechanic of magic resist is broken.

Physical dmg can easily get 80%+ reduction, however, magical dmg just can get 40%+ reduction by no deduction of stacking resist.

It's not broken that's the way it was designed. You not liking it doesnt make it broken. Both resists and armor can be debuffed, but there is no stat that gives resist penetration like ws gives armor penetration.

Magic damage is designed to hit every class roughly the same, though people will have different levels of toughness and chance to defend. Physical damage is designed to hit softer targets harder.

It's not a difficult concept. Why do some people feel the need to come and cry about something so fundamental because they died?

If you have a problem with the damage a specific class can do, cry about that. Magic damage is working as intended, it's not broken so please stop making such an ignorant complaint.

The mechanic is called Reduce Resistence, and most of the classes include one for its damage type.

Phys damage was designed to be widespread along most classes, and specific damages were to be exceptional and restricted to few classes and skills. A few patches later even rats in Norsca were dealing some form of special damage attacks... Also magic casters were kings at the start in raw numbers, which pretty much made all idea of "there will be equal numbers of each of the classes" a fail. Not having a tank in Empire/Chaos, and later getting one which introduced the aura resist buff/debuff mechanic just further extended the trouble. Now all classes needed to be able to deal damage with their magic attacks, even classes designed around tank dmg numbers, and must be able through a group buff aura.

Don't try to minimise the thread using a completely false argument. We are speaking and we have all died to all enemy classes. That's the way it is, not the way it is balanced.

In fact, Hammerhead remembers and explain the mistake in that last paragraph.

I'm not going to argue nonsense, it's not broken. The fact that everyone mitigates a similar amount of magic damage through resists is not an accident.

If someone thinks magic damage is too high on a certain class they should make a thread about that class specifically. Or if you think that is BS and magic damage is the problem, explain how RP and Zealot DPS is OP because it deals magic damage. The class that gets +35% crit and +100% extra crit damage killed you, must be the damage type...

And people are absolutely crying because they think they were killed to easily on a tank.

Flame Arrow is too OP, that magic damage will kill you.

[adamthelc]

its like people forget all the "rock paper scissors" design this game used to have
magic melts tank
tank wins vs melee
melee dps kills magic caster

sure, magic caster can kill melee too, but a proper melee train lands on a magic dps that has no guard, and it goes poof in 2 seconds.
every class has counter to something, and weak spot to something.
even mara that ignores enemy armor pen, melts to magic
BW. that melts tanks, dies when ganked by a WE
Sorc, that melts tanks, dies when ganked by a WH
tanks will outlast a melee dps in 1v1 fight due to stacking defences (except for slayers lul), and mostly win by surviving the clash of swords better

Sure, the scissors have been nerfed, the rock may be buffed and the paper wet at times. But every class has something that counters something - and is weak to something.
(original WE/WH gank burst was way higher - and even original magic bomb dmg way higher - most classes have had quite numerous nerfs, now balance stems from who has been nerfed least)

I just partly agree with you.

However, how comes a tank is a tank. Its because the tank should have the best survival ability against any types of dmg, even magical dmg.

When my BW friend told me, he can hit a chosen with 1200+ and just 200+ to sorc with the same ability.

Its so ridiculous. A magical caster is tanky than the tank.

Tanks do have the best survivability against casters. Resists mitigating less than armor doesnt really change that.

There are too many variable to describe why "BW friend" Might not have hit "chosen" as hard as "sorc".

Tanks dont have detaunt and dont get guard as much. But they should have more toughness, wounds and possibly a lot higher chance to defend.

[wargrimnir]

OP has been thoroughly answered. Let's lock this thread on the last few points of sanity that were made.