ICONIC to the devs

[adamthelc]

Thanks for clarification!
Could you explain why you devs think it's a good idea to make wbs queue, considering the issues raised in this thread?
The mechanic will be like presented in the test last Sunday?

The issues raised arent that well thought out. Certain classes or bomb groups being too good isnt going to change based on what size premades are allowed to join together. It's based on the scale of the content.

So the only thing that would really change based on the amount that can join to together would be the level of coordination. Why should there be a line drawn at how competitive you can be and why should the line be drawn at 6? That seems like a rather arbitrary number, you could make the same argument for allowing 6 man's would he too competitive and that people should only be allowed to join solo.

The fact that a lot of people think a group of 6 is the appropriate level of coordination that should be allowed doesnt mean that there is any merit it to that idea.

You could argue that a group of 6 is more realistic for a lot of people to form and that's true. But literally everyone could form a group of 1. So with that same argument couldnt you say it would be more fair if you didnt allow groups to join together at all?

What if you had to queue for CH 22 PQs, but you could only queue with a group of 6? You would have take 18 random people even if you have 18 other friends ready to go? It makes no sense.

It seems like the crux of the argument is 24 people shouldnt be allowed to join together because it would harder for 6 mans to compete. Boo hoo, form an alliance and have multiple 6 mans team up. If you want to do the pinnacle of RvR, you should have to play it like RvR. Dont expect to be able to play whatever you want or in whatever group size you want and expect to be able to compete against people that are pushing the envelope, that's not realistic.

There is 6 groups in a city. a WB would fills 4, a 6 man fills 1. The more organized the groups are, the higher the chance they will win. The chances of 4x6 mans to join the same city instance is unlikely. Where a wb its certain. This allows for a chance for balance.

However i am all for wbs joining if facing wbs or giving the losing side massive bags. No one is going to stick around a losing fight....aka take live for example.

If you could create a system that would guarantee fairly even matches all of the time, I would support that. I dont think that's possible. I dont think it's worth limiting joining as a warband for what seems could be like a slightly better chance at an even fight.

If the population was more robust I think separate instance types could work. I dont think with this population it would work very well, but I have been wrong before.

I am not opposed to gold bags or something like that for a very good performance on the losing side. I think that's a good idea. The only question is how you would determine that because the winners should always get a better chance at good rewards.

[zachary]

>I am not opposed to gold bags or something like that for a very good performance on the losing side. I think that's a good idea. The only question is how you would determine that because the winners should always get a better chance at good rewards.

The problem is that in a blowout-type situation:
1. If all losers get the same rewards, then there's no reason for the losers to do anything but idle at wc, waiting for it to be over - they'll get the same rewards as if they try really hard to win despite the overwhelming odds.
2. If effort is somehow factored in:
2.1 comparing to winning-side contribution is unfair b/c of _course_ the massively-outnumbered side is going to get killed way more often
2.2 comparing to losing-side contribution may _also_ make try-hards come out looking worse than idlers because they're certain to die more often

I don't know what the solution is, but forts of late have made some of these problems way more apparent.

Also: While it seems intuitive that 'winners should always get a better chance at good rewards' - is it really true? You want to heap rewards - gear, in this case - on the victors _who need it less than the losers_.
- Maybe rewards should be equal in size but differ in type for each side? eg. losers get gear _because they need it to make them better next time_ and winners get trophies/brags/other-non-performant-rewards and massive reknown - like 5x-10x.
- Maybe contribution earned should scale inversely with the rr of the competitors? so an rr80 player killing someone gets half the contribution of an rr40 player killing the same someone? or maybe that's already in place?

Feedback loops can be tricky things.

[GoreFist]

Is there really a lot of guilds on the server that can get a full wb anytime of the day or night? I guess that a maximum of 2-3, and then only in EU prime time. but let's be honest, to create city sieges in prime time will be very difficult, and at that time it will be very rare. mainly city sieges will occur at a time when the server population will not be as large (as forts are now), guilds will not be able to collect full guild warbands, and most likely such warbands will not have all the necessary classes for the 2-2-2 scheme.

People Xrealm to maximize their rewards.... if a fort happens people aren't logging to defend it, people are logging to defend city/attack city no one is gonna defend fort's when cities pop lets be real lol.....

[madrocks]

Spoiler:

Is there really a lot of guilds on the server that can get a full wb anytime of the day or night? I guess that a maximum of 2-3, and then only in EU prime time. but let's be honest, to create city sieges in prime time will be very difficult, and at that time it will be very rare. mainly city sieges will occur at a time when the server population will not be as large (as forts are now), guilds will not be able to collect full guild warbands, and most likely such warbands will not have all the necessary classes for the 2-2-2 scheme.

People Xrealm to maximize their rewards.... if a fort happens people aren't logging to defend it, people are logging to defend city/attack city no one is gonna defend fort's when cities pop lets be real lol.....

So true.

[Alfa1986]

Is there really a lot of guilds on the server that can get a full wb anytime of the day or night? I guess that a maximum of 2-3, and then only in EU prime time. but let's be honest, to create city sieges in prime time will be very difficult, and at that time it will be very rare. mainly city sieges will occur at a time when the server population will not be as large (as forts are now), guilds will not be able to collect full guild warbands, and most likely such warbands will not have all the necessary classes for the 2-2-2 scheme.

People Xrealm to maximize their rewards.... if a fort happens people aren't logging to defend it, people are logging to defend city/attack city no one is gonna defend fort's when cities pop lets be real lol.....

in other words, you d like to say that the guilds will reach in agreement which zone they give up to the enemy in order to set up the time of city sieges in prime time ?! which is also not quite fair play atm

as for absolutely losing mirrors with bomb warbands, we saw all this on life. when one side is starting to farm the other, the other disappears. their motivation is decreasing to zero if they don’t see a chance to kill anyone. on live they was simply either sit on the resp or quit the mirror, only on life there was the opportunity change the mirror. if u got on a bad mirror with bomb warband u could get out and come in again hoping to get either on the same mirror with bomb warband but already on your own side or on a mirror with equal power from opponents . here I suppose you want to deprive people of this opportunity and stick up players to a certain mirror. in this case, in most variations bomb warbands will fight with mobs all the time (and get easy way grinding sovr set) , and those players who get in such a mirror will simply either quit the game or going to do scenarios. just imagine an ordinary scenario where one side that is much stronger than the other will farm the opponent for an hour or two. what to do the weaker side in this case?

[Direbloodykiller]

Thanks for clarification!
Could you explain why you devs think it's a good idea to make wbs queue, considering the issues raised in this thread?
The mechanic will be like presented in the test last Sunday?

1. The issues raised arent that well thought out. Certain classes or bomb groups being too good isnt going to change based on what size premades are allowed to join together. It's based on the scale of the content.

2. So the only thing that would really change based on the amount that can join to together would be the level of coordination. Why should there be a line drawn at how competitive you can be and why should the line be drawn at 6? That seems like a rather arbitrary number, you could make the same argument for allowing 6 man's would he too competitive and that people should only be allowed to join solo.

3. The fact that a lot of people think a group of 6 is the appropriate level of coordination that should be allowed doesnt mean that there is any merit it to that idea.

4. You could argue that a group of 6 is more realistic for a lot of people to form and that's true. But literally everyone could form a group of 1. So with that same argument couldnt you say it would be more fair if you didnt allow groups to join together at all?

5. What if you had to queue for CH 22 PQs, but you could only queue with a group of 6? You would have take 18 random people even if you have 18 other friends ready to go? It makes no sense.

6. It seems like the crux of the argument is 24 people shouldnt be allowed to join together because it would harder for 6 mans to compete. Boo hoo, form an alliance and have multiple 6 mans team up. If you want to do the pinnacle of RvR, you should have to play it like RvR. Dont expect to be able to play whatever you want or in whatever group size you want and expect to be able to compete against people that are pushing the envelope, that's not realistic.

1. Could be adjusted by changing the mechanic. And its at least likely that the impact of bombing is decreased, when WBs (who are setup exactly for this), couldnt join together.
2. Thats a point, but I adressed this issue already with the comparison between 12vs12 sc and 18vs18 scs. And there is also a PuG-Scenario for exactly these complaints
3. valid, but I would only exclude WBs (given the actual mechanic), due to the issues raised with enabling joining together. This is an MMO, group play should be encouraged.
4. thats not an issue
5. you point make no sense.
6. strawmen

@arbich
1.
2. so you dont got an answer to the question
3. you contridict yourself - "this is an mmo, group play should be encouraged" - well, the more the marrier
4. adam never said this was an issue, read it again. stating that its easier to group up with 6 mates then 24 is easier, so is solo queing instead of grouping up with 6. i guess he raises this since this is one of the reaons "elitist 6-mans" are using
5. got nothing to add
6. strawmen... this is your actuall response?

[Direbloodykiller]

you are the best lutz (reminds me of my old gf who was bipolar af)

I think it's time that we all calm down and learn to appreciate again.

The RoR team does invest alot of time too, as you all know. Time spend in front of a screen certainly better spend on something else. They have to deal with your attitude. What a pain in the ass.

I ask everyone -that has still doubts about the intentions of the Dev team- to read the intruduction text to the patchnotes, come down to an unbiased mental state and be thankful again.

I do not believe that there is any dev bias in any way.

What counts is that we give positive and constructive feedback.
So be all good guys now, stop hating

Thanks Mr.Eyeliner for the clarification..

Welcome once again to the **** bombing meta everyone!
There was a glimpse of hope! Aaaannnd it's gone.
Let's see how long it will take you to nerf marauders after we stack the **** out of them.

No **** Sherlock.

[madrocks]

you are the best lutz (reminds me of my old gf who was bipolar af)

Spoiler:

I think it's time that we all calm down and learn to appreciate again.

The RoR team does invest alot of time too, as you all know. Time spend in front of a screen certainly better spend on something else. They have to deal with your attitude. What a pain in the ass.

I ask everyone -that has still doubts about the intentions of the Dev team- to read the intruduction text to the patchnotes, come down to an unbiased mental state and be thankful again.

I do not believe that there is any dev bias in any way.

What counts is that we give positive and constructive feedback.
So be all good guys now, stop hating

Thanks Mr.Eyeliner for the clarification..

Welcome once again to the **** bombing meta everyone!
There was a glimpse of hope! Aaaannnd it's gone.
Let's see how long it will take you to nerf marauders after we stack the **** out of them.

No **** Sherlock.

Bipolar? Your persona must attract quite some women then or maybe it doesn't at all by now. Who cares?

It is very pathetic how you dig out posts from the past, combine them with the actual ones and the actual happening.
My old statement counts to a certain extend, Yalishka wrote a nice letter to the community and I answered accordingly.
The Staff introduced the malus system at that time and people were very upset about it, some still are.
This is way before the population limit on forts have been removed, the aoe cap was risen, terror pumpkins **** up pvp for 2 weeks.. etc.. etc..

So bitch please.. did I say already its offtopic?!

[MedV]

I’d prefer 6man que max. My opinion is that a large variety of classes won’t be able to get into major guild WBs.

But the main reason is... the main guild wbs will most likely not be in the same mirror, therefore there will be multiple mirrors that are getting stomped.

If it was a 6man que it would be a large variety of classes and tactics which would be more fun for gameplay. More people wld make 6man groups and que sc rank. It would bring way more enjoyment to more people. Guild wbs in a closed mirror aka a large sc will ruin this for many.

[Direbloodykiller]

you are the best lutz (reminds me of my old gf who was bipolar af)

Spoiler:

I think it's time that we all calm down and learn to appreciate again.

The RoR team does invest alot of time too, as you all know. Time spend in front of a screen certainly better spend on something else. They have to deal with your attitude. What a pain in the ass.

I ask everyone -that has still doubts about the intentions of the Dev team- to read the intruduction text to the patchnotes, come down to an unbiased mental state and be thankful again.

I do not believe that there is any dev bias in any way.

What counts is that we give positive and constructive feedback.
So be all good guys now, stop hating

Thanks Mr.Eyeliner for the clarification..

Welcome once again to the **** bombing meta everyone!
There was a glimpse of hope! Aaaannnd it's gone.
Let's see how long it will take you to nerf marauders after we stack the **** out of them.

No **** Sherlock.

Bipolar? Your persona must attract quite some women then or maybe it doesn't at all by now. Who cares?

It is very pathetic how you dig out posts from the past, combine them with the actual ones and the actual happening.
My old statement counts to a certain extend, Yalishka wrote a nice letter to the community and I answered accordingly.
The Staff introduced the malus system at that time and people were very upset about it, some still are.
This is way before the population limit on forts have been removed, the aoe cap was risen, terror pumpkins **** up pvp for 2 weeks.. etc.. etc..

So bitch please.. did I say already its offtopic?!

once again with emotional flurry like a teenage girl on her period
i never called you anything (like you on the other hand just did), i mearly called out your behavior

the statement above proves one thing; you are only in it for yourself. as soon as you hear something you dont like, the behavior follows it

ps. i still think you are a great pug wb leader and love surfing on your zerg