Coordinated Strike nerf (WL)

[Flavorburst]

Good. It was needed. There are plenty of times you WL players killed someone before the knockdown was over and you all know it.

"Nuh uh! Only if you're an undergeared lowbie lolz"

And if you're one of the many people just leveling in this game or just joined and you got vaporized? That's kinda a crap attitude for a small population server to just say 'eff you' to half the enemy fightin' force - both sides have plenty of undergeared lowbies that just want to get thru the grind.

"But front loaded burst is what defines the class!! I dont want to have to assist my party to get kills!"

Look, let's just level for a minute, ok? It's not fun to go up against someone in a fight when you dont get a chance to fight back. This same argument has been played out in other games many times over. Front loaded burst that high needed to be toned down. Yes, BW and sorc can do that kind of damage -back loaded. Theres at least a chance someone could clear a debuff and mess up the damage rotation in the 10 seconds it takes to set it up. See - they get a chance to fight back.

"But I like doing damage!!! Its a damage dealing class!!"

Its either this or you lose your knockdown.

"Aaarrgh!!"

Now give them another AoE attack so they stop complaining about not being useful in warband play.

"Ok fine...."

Getting dunked on as a newb has been a staple of every mmo ever. It's what gives you a feeling of progress, and a goal to reach.

Frankly, with bolster and the power granted to you by pve gear (which can help you side step any licks you should be taking, entirely), this server already does more than its due diligence to afford everyone a fighting chance.

If you are still getting rekt (while others don't seem to have these issues) maybe... JUST MAYBE it's a "you" problem.

[Flavorburst]

WL were the best 1v1 class in the game by miles. Their pets are tanky (unlike engi, magus and SH) and they could stomp pug SCs. They needed toning down.

Appreciate it sucks as you've become accustomed to facerolling people, but it needed to happen Manatikik.

As it happens they are still the best 1v1 roamer for orvr and incredibly powerful at nuking backline. Much more so than say Maras or mSH.

You know that magus basically craps on WL and just about anything else 1v1, right?

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=33858&p=380531#p380531

Oh, wait... You do.

So, are WL free RR, or not?

Didn't look like it from the last time I ran into your magus, but then again, the last time I ran into your magus you ran around panicking spamming maw on me until I collected my RR (post nerf). It's funny how one encounter can drastically change your opinion like that.

To quote iron Mike: everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Your problem with WL (that you are suddenly having) isn't because they are so good, it's from the numerous errors I noticed while fighting you (as someone with a 70+ magus).

[balvor877]

WL were the best 1v1 class in the game by miles. Their pets are tanky (unlike engi, magus and SH) and they could stomp pug SCs. They needed toning down.

Appreciate it sucks as you've become accustomed to facerolling people, but it needed to happen Manatikik.

As it happens they are still the best 1v1 roamer for orvr and incredibly powerful at nuking backline. Much more so than say Maras or mSH.

You know that magus basically craps on WL and just about anything else 1v1, right?

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=33858&p=380531#p380531

Oh, wait... You do.

So, are WL free RR, or not?

Great finding. Destro player with most overpowered magus class tries to justify WL nerf. LOL, nothing to add.

[Sulorie]

WL were the best 1v1 class in the game by miles.

No they are not. Shaman is way way better. That auto detaunt tactic is overpowered since day 1. Let's take that away, then Im fine with the WL nerf. You get the dwarven mirror "faster recovery from knock downs" for it. Sounds fair, right?

Shaman have no slot for auto-detaunt tactic in dd spec and guardian WL have very good chances to get the kill, with all the CC they got.

[aa91837]

WL were the best 1v1 class in the game by miles. Their pets are tanky (unlike engi, magus and SH) and they could stomp pug SCs. They needed toning down.

Appreciate it sucks as you've become accustomed to facerolling people, but it needed to happen Manatikik.

As it happens they are still the best 1v1 roamer for orvr and incredibly powerful at nuking backline. Much more so than say Maras or mSH.

You know that magus basically craps on WL and just about anything else 1v1, right?

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=33858&p=380531#p380531

Oh, wait... You do.

So, are WL free RR, or not?

Great finding. Destro player with most overpowered magus class tries to justify WL nerf. LOL, nothing to add.

magus-most overpowered class? LOL?

devs give engi 25% armor debuff ability, CORE Aoe-knockback, 15% crit 100ft tactic(which working for all trees!) , Tzeentch's Firestorm mirror.

while magus received NOTHING

engi Focused fire(CORE ) doing more dmg/sec than Magus 13pt "mirror" ability

[balvor877]

magus-most overpowered class? LOL?

Have you read the linked post? The magus himself states there:

"You are now a 1v1 beast in orvr. Go bait those WLs, SW, Engis, WHs to attack you and collect your free 2-8k renown per kill. Imo magus is the most underrated class in solo play."

And that's a freaking caster. Every cloth wearing caster should go down in seconds to a melee dps class with a big ass axe. Why? Because they usually stand behind a line of tanks and melee dps and usually have healers next to them. And they have the range advantage. It's very hard for a melee to get in there and get a kill (snare, stun, knock down, knock back...). You either need to be a powerhouse with sustained damage like Mara or a WL with burst to jump in, do damage and get out before dying again.

Weaker front load means longer time to kill and lower chance of being successful with your task. WLs are all about hit and run and about surprising momentum. If you take that away it's another broken elf class. We already have one. The SM.

[JungleMan007]

Closing
We've actually had a lot more plans for not just WL, but wanted to see how the WL changes were received before moving forward with any more changes. Generally, the feedback has been positive from destro players and neutral from order players.

I just find this part funny. Wait....The other side finds nerfing of the other side to be positive? Who would have guessed?!

[aa91837]

But muh Marauders!
I'd like to give a similar buff to Marauders, even though they've been the poster child for a 'perfectly balanced class' for a while, a buff to their Rend ability to match that of WL's DoT buffs. They already get an armor bypass on their mutation-required abilities, and it would only seem fair to buff the WL's 'Mythic mirror' with something similar.

Marauder not perfectly balanced class, it's perfectly gimped twice class: Path of Savagery was nerfed hard few years ago

Closing
We've actually had a lot more plans for not just WL, but wanted to see how the WL changes were received before moving forward with any more changes. Generally, the feedback has been positive from destro players and neutral from order players.

Sure... WL need more aoe dmg buffs, just like meleeSH..oh wait meleeSH was nerfed few months ago.

I'd also like to mention that these are changes *I* want to see and do not reflect the opinions of the entire team, and none of what I posted may stay in the game for long, or if at all.

I think these are pretty good ideas and I just so happen to have access to my local dev server right now. I may stream working on these abilities soon so we can try them out together as a community. Is that something you guys would be interested in seeing?

Let me know, even if it's just feedback. If these changes work well for WL, we'll be touching other classes with similar tweaks.

order will receive huge buffs(again), destro-minor/nothing.

[Lithenir]

Good. It was needed. There are plenty of times you WL players killed someone before the knockdown was over and you all know it.

Oh I LOVE that. So please immediatly nerf all WE because there are plenty of times WE players killed someone before the knockdown was over and you all know it!

Axeman
Thin The Herd / Cull the Weak / Primal Fury pretty much defines the Axeman Tree.
Guardian
I think Leonine Frenzy, Brutal Pounce pretty much is class defining for the guardian tree.

Especially both of these Trees need a huge tactics rework. Stalker in the Guardian Tree and Threatening Distraction in Axeman Tree are pretty much useless and basically the same.
As for Echoing Roar. I don't think this ability is meant to make damage, the main part of this skill is to interrupt and it can have a huge impact because you are able to interrupt in two different spots at the same time.
There are so many fun specs to play with the WL besides the standard.
Oh and for the Hunter Tree.... If you want to puch the AoE attacks, feel free, I don't need them, but please don't nerf single attacks for it. I love that the WL is a single target class and nobody needs AoE on a WL.
And please let groupheal heal the pets again, they die so fast...

[oaliaen]

Closing
We've actually had a lot more plans for not just WL, but wanted to see how the WL changes were received before moving forward with any more changes. Generally, the feedback has been positive from destro players and neutral from order players.

I just find this part funny. Wait....The other side finds nerfing of the other side to be positive? Who would have guessed?!

---

..and neutral from order players.

Seems you are not so 'neutral'