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madrocks
Posts: 100

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#91 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:36 pm

We have not been stacking up with more then 1 war-band since the Topic started. Slight exceptions might have happen.
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Some game mechanics are not that easy to implement. It is more easy to let the main guilds follow a mantra and be an example for the rest of the realm.
Lutzgaroth

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Collateral
Posts: 1464

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#92 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:28 pm

wonshot wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:28 pm
Collateral wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:04 am
How about instead of having to "agree" on some rule that's virtually impossible to follow, the game mechanics actually try to reduce blobbing :o
Didnt they try that at one point, the bigger the aao the bigger the damage output. Solo Maras killing zergs.

Could maybe bring this back, but make it not apply when within range of a battle objective. So an example would be not on the Martys Sqare BO in praag, but if you try to ambush the ram zerg headed on the mainroad to the keep you could zergbust.
I didn't mean mechanics that completely break the game. That change was one of the worst in history, but aza at least tried. Arbitrary increases to damage output based on some random conditions will never work. And he admitted it was a bad solution. But, if you don't want to test things on an 'alpha' server, what the hell is the point in anything? So many things have been proposed, from removal of damage morales to increasing aoe cap and reversing the changes to bos. I'm just done repeating myself, and so are all those other people. Devs never really gave any explanation why those things wouldn't work in their mind.

You really don't have to think very hard to come up with a solution. And you definitely don't need some elaborate mechanics. Check out how the game looked like 2-3 years ago. It wasn't perfect, but most of your answers are there.
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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2715

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#93 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:26 pm

wonshot wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:28 pm
Collateral wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:04 am
How about instead of having to "agree" on some rule that's virtually impossible to follow, the game mechanics actually try to reduce blobbing :o
Didnt they try that at one point, the bigger the aao the bigger the damage output. Solo Maras killing zergs.

Could maybe bring this back, but make it not apply when within range of a battle objective. So an example would be not on the Martys Sqare BO in praag, but if you try to ambush the ram zerg headed on the mainroad to the keep you could zergbust.
No, this was the worst attempt ever implemented to try and deal with the bomb groups and it was done almost entirely out of frustration from a small scale bias. The developer admitted later on that he didn't realize that people actually liked the warband playstyle and changes his perception about his bias. There's no mechanic that's gonna fix this issue without making it instanced and fixed numbers, and then you just gonna have the best geared and organized groups win everything cos you can't challenge em by numbers anymore. You just kill pugs completely. The only thing you can do is to create incentive to try to make people not leave.
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heybaws
Posts: 23

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#94 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:05 am

So, while Lutz keep telling to stop pointing fingers on each realm, some destro guild during they event blobbed 4 warband again and roflstomped solo roaming order warbands. Yeah, both sides are guilty, lol.

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Drys
Posts: 41

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#95 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:44 am

roadkillrobin wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:26 pm
...There's no mechanic that's gonna fix this issue without making it instanced and fixed numbers, and then you just gonna have the best geared and organized groups win everything cos you can't challenge em by numbers anymore. You just kill pugs completely. The only thing you can do is to create incentive to try to make people not leave.

I wonder if you could compute a metric for "zone power" -- basically number of players on a side in the lake,
multiplied by a scaling factor based on their gear (maybe fix and use "item level"). Essentially while the numbers wouldn't match, the effective power on both sides would match.

Best geared WB vs. More numbers with lower gear
Best geared WB vs. Best geared WB
etc...

There would need to be some +/- allowed as well as accounting for small groups leaving the zone.

Jabba
Posts: 80

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#96 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:58 am

Drys wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:44 am
roadkillrobin wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:26 pm
...There's no mechanic that's gonna fix this issue without making it instanced and fixed numbers, and then you just gonna have the best geared and organized groups win everything cos you can't challenge em by numbers anymore. You just kill pugs completely. The only thing you can do is to create incentive to try to make people not leave.

I wonder if you could compute a metric for "zone power" -- basically number of players on a side in the lake,
multiplied by a scaling factor based on their gear (maybe fix and use "item level"). Essentially while the numbers wouldn't match, the effective power on both sides would match.

Best geared WB vs. More numbers with lower gear
Best geared WB vs. Best geared WB
etc...

There would need to be some +/- allowed as well as accounting for small groups leaving the zone.
Why do people keep proposing ideas like this? Ideas that would basically force both sides to blob up in one giant ball, as the only (statistically) even fight would be one in which every single person in the zone was participating.

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OndeTv
Posts: 81

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#97 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:12 pm

So...

Now we have a 24 aoe cap instead of the old one. We already had no caps/high caps on live and it was bad then, and it will be bad now. I know this is a test. And hopefully this test will show all those proposing higher caps that not only has history proven this to be a bad idea, but this test will show it as well.

One thing that would really matter though, would be a change to the ability to xrealm. If people want to play both sides, fine, who are we to judge. But the everyday "life" of the server consists of 3 groups of people:

- die hard destro players
- die hard order players
- i-will-log-to-the-winning side players

Now, that last group is a real issue, and it is yet another reason why things snowball out of control, building even larger mindless zergs.

Now, imagine if when you logged with a character you got tagged as having selected your current main faction. Logging in to the other faction would give you a debuff which reduces renown and stats in RvR lakes for 2 (or perhaps even 4) hours. That would force the last group of players to make a choice of which faction to play that day, rather than just switching side. Or suffer the consequences.
~~~~~~~~ OndeTv, Sorceress, <The Art of War> ~~~~~~~~
~~ Onds, choppa ~~ Ondarm, marauder ~~ Helligonden, zealot ~~
~~~~~~~~~~ and many more destro characters ~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~ Proud member of Nagarythe Corps in the old days ~~~~~

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Acidic
Posts: 1209
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Re: No zerg agreement

Post#98 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:06 pm

OndeTv wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:12 pm
So...

Now we have a 24 aoe cap instead of the old one. We already had no caps/high caps on live and it was bad then, and it will be bad now. I know this is a test. And hopefully this test will show all those proposing higher caps that not only has history proven this to be a bad idea, but this test will show it as well.

One thing that would really matter though, would be a change to the ability to xrealm. If people want to play both sides, fine, who are we to judge. But the everyday "life" of the server consists of 3 groups of people:

- die hard destro players
- die hard order players
- i-will-log-to-the-winning side players

Now, that last group is a real issue, and it is yet another reason why things snowball out of control, building even larger mindless zergs.

Now, imagine if when you logged with a character you got tagged as having selected your current main faction. Logging in to the other faction would give you a debuff which reduces renown and stats in RvR lakes for 2 (or perhaps even 4) hours. That would force the last group of players to make a choice of which faction to play that day, rather than just switching side. Or suffer the consequences.
Not the worst idea about to give an xrealming rr gain debuff, may not capture those that have multi accounts but could be interesting.

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anrix
Posts: 22

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#99 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:26 pm

OndeTv wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:12 pm
So...

Now we have a 24 aoe cap instead of the old one. We already had no caps/high caps on live and it was bad then, and it will be bad now. I know this is a test. And hopefully this test will show all those proposing higher caps that not only has history proven this to be a bad idea, but this test will show it as well.

One thing that would really matter though, would be a change to the ability to xrealm. If people want to play both sides, fine, who are we to judge. But the everyday "life" of the server consists of 3 groups of people:

- die hard destro players
- die hard order players
- i-will-log-to-the-winning side players

Now, that last group is a real issue, and it is yet another reason why things snowball out of control, building even larger mindless zergs.

Now, imagine if when you logged with a character you got tagged as having selected your current main faction. Logging in to the other faction would give you a debuff which reduces renown and stats in RvR lakes for 2 (or perhaps even 4) hours. That would force the last group of players to make a choice of which faction to play that day, rather than just switching side. Or suffer the consequences.
I wonder how this would actually shake out if enforced. Are people assuming the split will be even with something like this implemented. More than likely the realm with the win streak around the time the patch drops will win the majority population and paint the other realm into an endless corner.

Arthem
Suspended
Posts: 75

Re: No zerg agreement

Post#100 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:56 am

The BiS gear for most classes can be obtained by simply joining a warband and zerging your opponent down and completing a very short and simple campaign without a lockout every few hours. If this is the path of least resistence to getting the best gear thats what players are going to do.

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