lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

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hogun
Posts: 229

lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:54 am

Dear Dev,

can you confirm that it is not the spirit of the game to give the last rvr zone to win 4 tokens in fortress,

if so, can you explain it to the players? and mainly for some WB lead known for this shameful strategy

and since some player will never have the right spirit, can you find a solution that would make victory the only thing that will bring something?

sorry for my english,

ty

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUoWKUjc5jQ

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=285Po7ll8_s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1teiDxgXKcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkcXrr8VE9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJx3So8q6o
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Yaliskah
King of Nothing
Posts: 1754

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#2 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:15 am

I agree this point.

Actually (since always probably, long time before RoR), problem is this one :

a-If you don't reward losing side (because it is the losing side), player will join the winning one (cross realm, path of least resistance...).Same if you "punish" the losing side.
b-If you reward equally both side (like middle zone), interest of making any "effort" becomes pointless.
c-If you offer better reward (and too much) for defending than attacking, it could be counter-productive and not very logical.

Idea behind this deployment (i remind it was for testing), was to eventually systematize an asymetrical system, taking mid T4 zone as a equal reward balance on both side, and increase this gap depending the progression. But you see where it could lead depending players behaviour and AAO.

Actually defending the last zone before fort give a little invader token. Of course it is not a lot, but this reward is given to all players who contributed in the defense.

Some may think that 1<4 is not interesting, imo, 1 is always better than 0 if you are pre 40 or don't have a slot in forts.

Sadly we can't change players mind.

Now if you have a strong proposition to make the situations well represented and fair (attacker lose/wins, defenders win/ lose, depending the place, everyone still plays the game following the realm logic), i'm interested :).

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Akilinus
Posts: 222

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#3 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:21 am

Have invader medallions drop from player kills
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Yaliskah
King of Nothing
Posts: 1754

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#4 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:24 am

Akilinus wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:21 am
Have invader medallions drop from player kills
And when warlord and sov? same? So, why not just let Praag open? :) (could have been an idea btw....)

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Akilinus
Posts: 222

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#5 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:27 am

Yaliskah wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:24 am
Akilinus wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:21 am
Have invader medallions drop from player kills
And when warlord and sov? same? So, why not just let Praag open? :)
Have it the same way you did with the other tiers.
Give some bonus rewards for taking keeps/forts etc.
Rewarding player kills is the only way to stop people from letting other side push zones for free just to get to keep
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anarchypark
Posts: 1281

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#6 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:16 pm

Akilinus wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:27 am
Yaliskah wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:24 am
Akilinus wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:21 am
Have invader medallions drop from player kills
And when warlord and sov? same? So, why not just let Praag open? :)
Have it the same way you did with the other tiers.
Give some bonus rewards for taking keeps/forts etc.
Rewarding player kills is the only way to stop people from letting other side push zones for free just to get to keep

nope, kill farm lead to zerg stalemate.
adding more excuse to ' don't feed them '
avoiding death from slightest danger.

you only think about winning side.
fun losing is the key in war game.
reward is only small part of fun. IMO.
6 vs 24, wipe after killing 12. Isn't it fun?
you can still do that. if you can find same minds. so it's player issue.
like bad leader is player issue.
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Davjen
Posts: 19

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#7 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:39 pm

From my point of view the only way to kinda fix this is increasing the token from 1 to 2 BUT give token only to a certain amount of contribution reached to prevent afk leechers to just stay in zone and get it. You can't just give one because organized wb (those are actually the only one that can Def properly) already get the spot in fort so losing keep is 100% fort for them so the main point "better 1 to everyone than 4 to some" is not working (and actually just helping leechers) and they don't mind just let the siege end. But I would also give 1 invader to the attackers when they win the last keep just to prevent xrealming and lower the final result in fort for winning from 6 to 5. In that situation there is kinda the same reason to prevent a loss and to focus to win for both side

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Yaliskah
King of Nothing
Posts: 1754

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#8 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:54 pm

Davjen wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:39 pm
From my point of view the only way to kinda fix this is increasing the token from 1 to 2 BUT give token only to a certain amount of contribution reached to prevent afk leechers to just stay in zone and get it. You can't just give one because organized wb (those are actually the only one that can Def properly) already get the spot in fort so losing keep is 100% fort for them so the main point "better 1 to everyone than 4 to some" is not working (and actually just helping leechers) and they don't mind just let the siege end. But I would also give 1 invader to the attackers when they win the last keep just to prevent xrealming and lower the final result in fort for winning from 6 to 5. In that situation there is kinda the same reason to prevent a loss and to focus to win for both side
/theorycrafting. Lets imagine we go this way (your idea is not so bad, but...), and even better, we link an amount of token based on your own contribution if you defend the last zone and avoid a fort defense.

So, for exemple big contrib : 4 (or 100) token, average 3, small 2, not enough : 0. What would invite a faction to push to the opposing side? some would think that losing from mid to "defend" last zone would be more interesting than pushing to the fort and maybe losing time and enrgy and victory in enemy last zone.

Now, i guess both faction would see some "let them take praag!" announcement :). See my point ? It wouldn't solve the issue, just moving it in another place.

The real question is : " What could motivate a losing faction/player to go beyond ? "

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Davjen
Posts: 19

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#9 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:14 pm

I got your point. Then to answer that the only solution I see is giving middle zone 2 invader to winner 1 invader to loser.
Last zone 2 invader to winner defence pushing back the zone 1 invader to winner pushing the zone to fort. Lower the invader from winning a fort attack from 6 to 5 and lower the invader for winning a defence from 4 to 2 (so at the end u have same amount of invader like before just given in different way). Base the token earning in winning and losing side keep on X amaunt of contribution. To prevent people farming contribution and then go afk get a way to lower their contribution after X min of being afk (edit : not loosing all contribution but lose like idk 5 contribution every 3 Mon afk or.sometjig like that). Do same in middle zone. After that is still "abusable" but u can't fix human being. Just try to make it harder for xrealmer and afk leechers.

You can't give invader with kills because it's "endgame" kinda gear and u can't flood the realms with that unless u wanna have meaningless fight after few weeks of farming.

Get a contribution based

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Akilinus
Posts: 222

Re: lose the last zone to win 4 tokens

Post#10 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:18 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:16 pm
Akilinus wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:27 am
Yaliskah wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:24 am


And when warlord and sov? same? So, why not just let Praag open? :)
Have it the same way you did with the other tiers.
Give some bonus rewards for taking keeps/forts etc.
Rewarding player kills is the only way to stop people from letting other side push zones for free just to get to keep

nope, kill farm lead to zerg stalemate.
adding more excuse to ' don't feed them '
avoiding death from slightest danger.

you only think about winning side.
fun losing is the key in war game.
reward is only small part of fun. IMO.
6 vs 24, wipe after killing 12. Isn't it fun?
you can still do that. if you can find same minds. so it's player issue.
like bad leader is player issue.
If your side zergs there are less players to kill = slower medallion rate. Log other side to have a chance at more kills = faster medallions.
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Mauzer 60 Kotbs Kkomrades 50 Black Guard
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Join us :)

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