Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

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wargrimnir
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#31 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:57 pm

Haskr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:55 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:49 pm
Haskr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:07 pm


Well but that is the point I don't get, if someone gets a ban, and its not an indefinite one, it means there has to be a certain amount of days to it (lets say 8, or whatever, I don't know what the steps are).
After those 8 days, wouldn't it be much easier to just lift the ban (easier as in: no extra work for the gamemaster/evildoer).
Why is there a need to have a conversation or write something, what should be the point of that?
Or is it like a ritual, were you make a kowtow infront of the emperor, while both partys know very well that its just a ritualistic show of goodwill or submission?
What's the point of having a suspension lifted if it's just going to happen again? So we can repeat this two more times before a final ban? Let's just skip to the good part where the drama happens if that's what people are going for. Why wait?
Well but wouldn't the first thing be the professional thing to do? Otherwise it just becomes the clown fiesta it is now.

For example, since I learned that we have a community manager, he could just lift the bans after the time is up and then we see how it goes. That this system now doesn't work very well is clear I think, why not try something new?

Also my first comment that I enjoy to read drama was meant tongue-in-cheek, actually I don't like the server and forum to get smaller and smaller.
Gosh, if the "community" (in this context it deserves quotes as we're talking about a minority of players who are at any risk of interactions, where the vast majority are not) doesn't want to get smaller I guess they'll just have to play by the rules. Appointing an un-banning puppet doesn't change the eventual outcome, if anything it prolongs the nonsense we have to put up with.
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Haskr
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#32 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:18 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:57 pm
Haskr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:55 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:49 pm


What's the point of having a suspension lifted if it's just going to happen again? So we can repeat this two more times before a final ban? Let's just skip to the good part where the drama happens if that's what people are going for. Why wait?
Well but wouldn't the first thing be the professional thing to do? Otherwise it just becomes the clown fiesta it is now.

For example, since I learned that we have a community manager, he could just lift the bans after the time is up and then we see how it goes. That this system now doesn't work very well is clear I think, why not try something new?

Also my first comment that I enjoy to read drama was meant tongue-in-cheek, actually I don't like the server and forum to get smaller and smaller.
Gosh, if the "community" (in this context it deserves quotes as we're talking about a minority of players who are at any risk of interactions, where the vast majority are not) doesn't want to get smaller I guess they'll just have to play by the rules. Appointing an un-banning puppet doesn't change the eventual outcome, if anything it prolongs the nonsense we have to put up with.
However, we cannot know if something works or doesn't work before it is tried. I think this is (or was?) also the aproach from the developer team regarding changes in the game: to try things out and see how it works, and turn it back if it doesn't.

I still don't understand your approach though. I agree that you should play by the servers rules if you want to play on the server/post in the forums. But my topic was never about those people (as I pointed out to Yaliskah), but about the people who did break the rules in the forum and got a temporary ban (so its a very specific scenario).

What I did get from your replies is that for you the whole package is important: How does someone act ingame, in the forums, in the discord (and other channels I forgot).

I have a different view on that: If someone writes a good balance proposal that makes sense for example, it should be considered, even if Satan himself wrote it.

Lets take a specific ban: temporary ban
First a disclaimer: I don't know that guy, have no idea what his characters are (nobody is going to believe me, but I can only state it)
Of course its fun to read, on the other side I have no clue whats going on (no idea what your answer is about, it seems to be about ingame/discord?).
So all I see is someone receiving a temporary ban -> it doesn't get lifted -> he goes to the appeals forum (wrong thing to go there in that case, as I know now).
But why does he have to go there in the first place? Why was his ban not lifted?
And of course from there on it escalates, name calling takes place, you=hitler and so on and so on, so at that point its goodbye to the forums for that guy anyways.
Did he break the rules in the game? In the discord? If so: why does that impair his ability to write in the forums, if he really is an obstinate rascal it shouldn't be hard to ban him again in the future (this time forever or next step), and I don't think it would make more work than the clown fiesta that the mentioned appeal turned into.

Thats why, and this is my last point in this already too long post, the current approach seems dishonest too me.
It gives itself the appearance to be independent, while it is the very opposite.
For example it would be much more honest to simply state that certain people, opinions, nonsense etc is unwanted in such cases and give the indefinite ban right away (my point 2 in the beginning post).

That however (this is now really the last point), would not be my approach.
As I already stated, for me it is clear that the strict approach, beeing the situation we have now, does not work. Why not try a more lenient one.
There were enough strongmen in the team already, and it never paid off, only turning people away, never posting again or spreading bad press through the net.
This community is small enough, we all have to learn to play together and endure each other if we want to actually see this game alive and thriving for the next years to come, thats not only the communities work, but also the alpha teams one.
Last edited by Haskr on Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Haskr
Posts: 319

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#33 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:32 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:57 pm
Haskr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:55 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:49 pm
we're talking about a minority of players who are at any risk of interactions, where the vast majority are not
Sorry but I forgot something I wanted to say about that: I think we have to be honest and ask ourselves why the biggest part of this community will have no risk in that regard (and I agree with you, that it actually is the biggest part): Most of those people visit this forum for one time only, and that is when they make their account.
I, at least, see the same faces over and over in the forums (many banned though since I joined in early 2017).

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wargrimnir
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#34 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:11 pm

No, we certainly do not need to endure each other.

The rules are there to let you generally know what we will most certainly not endure.
It's not a light suggestion, it's a requirement.

The appeals section, if you bother to read the rules and check a few of the pathetic attempts are there to let you know what we are not going to tolerate.

The general attitude of players in-game, are the REASON we don't tolerate such nonsense. It's not a coincidence how on one hand we can have such a nice and warm community of players, and such bad guys running the team.

I would much rather not have the dozens of players who were banned over the past year to ever come back. They were removed for a reason. I have no need to endure them.

Before you go on with how much better off we could be if we just cultivated our trash a little better, we get several thousand active users on the forums every day. We're doing just fine, even with the heavy hand, and that number hasn't been decreasing over time.
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Haskr
Posts: 319

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#35 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:25 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:11 pm
No, we certainly do not need to endure each other.
I see, it seems we have two very different approaches in that regard, and that further talk about that matter seems futile.

I can't see much good comming from your approach to be quite honest, it appeals to me a tad bitter and resentful, but I hope that, for the sake of the server and a healthy playerbase, it all works out in the end.

I, for one, valued some of the opinions of now banned players, even though I wouldn't always agree with them.

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adamthelc
Posts: 633

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#36 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:06 am

Haskr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:25 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:11 pm
No, we certainly do not need to endure each other.
I see, it seems we have two very different approaches in that regard, and that further talk about that matter seems futile.

I can't see much good comming from your approach to be quite honest, it appeals to me a tad bitter and resentful, but I hope that, for the sake of the server and a healthy playerbase, it all works out in the end.

I, for one, valued some of the opinions of now banned players, even though I wouldn't always agree with them.
It's probably a little easier to not care if people break the rules when it isnt your responsibility to enforce them. Couldnt imagine having the responsibility of having to moderate the **** show that is an online gaming community.

anarchypark
Posts: 1333

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#37 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:55 am

Haskr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:25 pm
...

What you're asking is requiring correction system.
like RL prison or school.
even top tier companies don't do such customer service.
that's public service area for ****.
do they deserve it from volunteer project?

teaching 'respect' on the internet...
maybe banhammer can do it :lol:
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Yaliskah
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#38 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:52 am

anarchypark wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:55 am
even top tier companies don't do such customer service.
Gonna be rude.

Gonna be rude reminding, there are no customer here, and there is no company.

There are only guests and people who welcome them in this private space, until this is no longer the case. In other words, it is not the home of eternal forgiveness, it is a (slow) work in progress project/hobby you can enjoy during its dev (or not).

This is a project where some people are wasting their time around a project they have absolutely nothing to win but dramas, complains, repproaches and whine, and who is asked to waste even more time managing few people who do not know how to manage themselves in society.

We don't ask to anyone to bend the knee in front of us, we don't ask you to shut your mouth or clap your hands to anything we are doing and who doesn't please you. You are free to express your opinion, you are free to disagree -we can even discuss it as we do now-, as long as THE WORK and PEOPLE are respected you are free to do lot of things, following the rules.

I guess inside your home, you don't let anyone doing anything. And when it happens, you kick this person out. Same here, nothing less ,nothing more.

When line have been crossed in this place, we owe nothing to anyone. Admitting that we owe anything to anyone.

Be our guest, enjoy your journey. :)

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Alcan
Posts: 20

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#39 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:59 am

+1 to Yallis and Wargim alltho no players no game :) think you are doing a great job Devs and Gm´s ive for one has allways had nice replys when ive asked them anything!

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Praedonius
Posts: 18

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#40 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:49 pm

Alcan wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:59 am
+1 to Yallis and Wargim alltho no players no game :) think you are doing a great job Devs and Gm´s ive for one has allways had nice replys when ive asked them anything!
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