Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

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Dackle
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#11 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:21 pm

This thread tickled my fancy so much, i just spammed refresh at the top of the page like a slayer spamming flury in a funnel!
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wargrimnir
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#12 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:56 pm

Haskr wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:41 pm
Altough I enjoy reading the drama in the ban-appeal section with a bowl of popcorn in my lap, I started to wonder if that drama could be avoided and reduce the already heavy workload of the gamemasters.

People receive a forum ban, and after they did their time the ban does not get lifted, so they go to the appeals section (wich is not the right one, as I understand it, in the first place?) and get told that their ban is now indefinitly, after which the usual accusal of the gamemaster being Stalins fifth grandson commences and the appellant dispenses thus every chance of ever getting to post in the forum again for the second time.

Now, there are two solutions for this that come to my mind:

1. Lift the forum ban automatically after the evildoer has served his time in San Quentin.

2. State that the evildoer is banned indefinitly when he receives his ban PM, so he doesn't have to be under the impression that it is only a temporary ban, thus flooding the appeals forum when said ban is not lifted.

On a more personal note I would like to add, that I saw in some posts that a change in the state of mind of the culprit is required, to get the ban lifted. As someone comming from Germany, I am used to the ruleset that you get a punishment, serve your time, and after that you are free to go, no change of mind required.
Now I hear that the system in the United States works a bit different, giving high sentences without the chance of a comeback, and after all the US prison system is the envy of the world and works terrific, so what do I know.

cheerio!
You don't get sent to jail, you're just not allowed to post here. This isn't high crimes and court drama. It's an internet forum with people who think it's funny to get ridiculously shitty with people providing them a free product. I see no benefit to catch, slap, and release if it's clear nothing is going to change from it.

When I tell people to contact me in a week, I don't mean in the appeals section of the forum (which should be pretty clear in the rules). I mean to contact me and have a conversation. If you can't accept the rules we have in place or the reasons you got warnings and eventually suspended, then you have no reason to be here. You're simply a waste of our time and resources to deal with over and over again.
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wargrimnir
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#13 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:01 pm

altharion1 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:50 pm
**** posts, drama and trolling on the forums is actually good for the game.

There's always a huge spike in forum activity when a good **** storm starts up, rumours of an actual interesting thread circulate on discord channels around the community, the alarm bells ring. Like moths to the flame, or flies to **** - the human waste, they crawl out of the sewers to gorge themselves on the drama.

All this additional traffic = more add revenue for site. Therefore the 2% are the real heroes tbh, sacrificing themselves for the good of the server
See, things like this. This guy had been banned in the past, permanently. Why? Repeatedly stirring ****, being warned for it, and doing it over and over again. Has he changed at all? No, not a bit. Exactly the same posts, and now inciting people to start drama on the forums and get banned because... it pays the bills? We don't need that kind of attention, we don't need those kinds of players spreading their toxic attitude. Now this guy is also gone because he's out of warnings and I doubt anything is going to change my mind about it.
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JPB
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#14 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:37 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:56 pm
Haskr wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:41 pm
You don't get sent to jail, you're just not allowed to post here. This isn't high crimes and court drama. It's an internet forum with people who think it's funny to get ridiculously shitty with people providing them a free product. I see no benefit to catch, slap, and release if it's clear nothing is going to change from it.

When I tell people to contact me in a week, I don't mean in the appeals section of the forum (which should be pretty clear in the rules). I mean to contact me and have a conversation. If you can't accept the rules we have in place or the reasons you got warnings and eventually suspended, then you have no reason to be here. You're simply a waste of our time and resources to deal with over and over again.
Hello.

I have read some of Discord discussions about the issue, and in a nutshell it's like this:

With a forum suspension, you are not able to contact directly or send direct message to anyone, thus this will leave 2 options;
1. Make a post in appeal, which is frankly common sense with the fact written above
2. Make another account and risk trouble for evading forum suspension in order to contact a GM.

Now i could guess some could try making a contact to you via Discord, but what i have understood, it requires some validation? You need to either accept friend request or be in same Discord server. Issues will be; do you accept the friend request? If the person who's trying to make an appeal can't get validated in your official Discord for whatever reasons.

Now about having a discussion. For what would be the point of it? For an example, the lately suspended and/or banned people and you have a lot of friction between you. Now i understand banter, but assuming their point is even half valid, neither of you are in the right, thus it has become personal in some extent. Whatever they would say, you would stick to your presupposed judgement about their persona and thus wouldn't believe most of their words or assurances would you? Atleast some of them. Now as the whole debacle has become quite absurd, it's likely their only way to view this is trough humour, even if some of it is "toxic" in nature. Even with going trough wrong channels to contact or appeal, which shouldn't be somehow lowering the chances, it seems like there is no chance most of the time due to both sides having clashing views. You can have a discussion, like any civilized people should, even when the views are opposite, but when both are adamant in their "right" and others "wrong"...

The question persists, what would be the point then?

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wargrimnir
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#15 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:29 am

JPB wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:37 pm

Hello.

I have read some of Discord discussions about the issue, and in a nutshell it's like this:

With a forum suspension, you are not able to contact directly or send direct message to anyone, thus this will leave 2 options;
1. Make a post in appeal, which is frankly common sense with the fact written above
2. Make another account and risk trouble for evading forum suspension in order to contact a GM.

Now i could guess some could try making a contact to you via Discord, but what i have understood, it requires some validation? You need to either accept friend request or be in same Discord server. Issues will be; do you accept the friend request? If the person who's trying to make an appeal can't get validated in your official Discord for whatever reasons.

Now about having a discussion. For what would be the point of it? For an example, the lately suspended and/or banned people and you have a lot of friction between you. Now i understand banter, but assuming their point is even half valid, neither of you are in the right, thus it has become personal in some extent. Whatever they would say, you would stick to your presupposed judgement about their persona and thus wouldn't believe most of their words or assurances would you? Atleast some of them. Now as the whole debacle has become quite absurd, it's likely their only way to view this is trough humour, even if some of it is "toxic" in nature. Even with going trough wrong channels to contact or appeal, which shouldn't be somehow lowering the chances, it seems like there is no chance most of the time due to both sides having clashing views. You can have a discussion, like any civilized people should, even when the views are opposite, but when both are adamant in their "right" and others "wrong"...

The question persists, what would be the point then?
I assume the point of continuing to post on the forums while you have not only a suspended forum account, but a 15 day ban on your in-game account for nazi bullshit, is simply stirring the pot in a game you have no real intent on playing anymore. Why not annoy the few people you can, while you can? What's the worst that could happen?

As Yali pointed out, the vast majority of people that play this game never find themselves at ends with any of the staff. The few people that can't hold a conversation without taking things way too far, or accepting that we simply don't agree with their assessments, usually end up unable to control themselves and would rather be martyred than live in a world where their opinions are dismissed on an internet forum for a game that shut down over 5 years ago.

If you want to come at anyone on the forums directly, offering mental health services because you think they mad and they died to you in PvP, you're gonna have a bad time. Whether it's directed at me, another staff member, or another player doesn't make it personal. It's just trashy, and well beyond offensive. It's not even a matter of growing thick skin. This is the job I have, this is what I've been doing here for a while. I know where to draw that line and it comes with experience, not because you hurt my feelings.

It's always personal for other people. I don't know you, I don't care about you more than anyone else.

Meanwhile, looking at the accounts connected to you, I see a bunch of familiar names, several who aren't welcome on the forums. Which one are you?

Saftdryck
Reesh
freshour
th3gatekeeper
Zod24
JPB
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guido
Posts: 13

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#16 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:13 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:29 am
JPB wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:37 pm

This is the job I have, this is what I've been doing here for a while. I know where to draw that line and it comes with experience, not because you hurt my feelings. (Uhuh)

It's always personal for other people. ( then why point out the bottom half of the context) I don't know you, I don't care about you more than anyone else. (This attitude is exactly what shouldn't be welcome)

Below This chat made it personal by calling one person out so you can remove him. (Childish behaviour.


Meanwhile, looking at the accounts connected to you, I see a bunch of familiar names, several who aren't welcome on the forums. Which one are you?

Saftdryck
Reesh
freshour
th3gatekeeper
Zod24
JPB

Ashoris
Posts: 141

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#17 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:29 am

JPB wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:37 pm
I have read some of Discord discussions about the issue, and in a nutshell it's like this:

With a forum suspension, you are not able to contact directly or send direct message to anyone, thus this will leave 2 options;
1. Make a post in appeal, which is frankly common sense with the fact written above
2. Make another account and risk trouble for evading forum suspension in order to contact a GM.

Now i could guess some could try making a contact to you via Discord, but what i have understood, it requires some validation? You need to either accept friend request or be in same Discord server. Issues will be; do you accept the friend request? If the person who's trying to make an appeal can't get validated in your official Discord for whatever reasons.

Now about having a discussion. For what would be the point of it? For an example, the lately suspended and/or banned people and you have a lot of friction between you. Now i understand banter, but assuming their point is even half valid, neither of you are in the right, thus it has become personal in some extent. Whatever they would say, you would stick to your presupposed judgement about their persona and thus wouldn't believe most of their words or assurances would you? Atleast some of them. Now as the whole debacle has become quite absurd, it's likely their only way to view this is trough humour, even if some of it is "toxic" in nature. Even with going trough wrong channels to contact or appeal, which shouldn't be somehow lowering the chances, it seems like there is no chance most of the time due to both sides having clashing views. You can have a discussion, like any civilized people should, even when the views are opposite, but when both are adamant in their "right" and others "wrong"...
The question persists, what would be the point then?
as someone who "to whatever reason" got a frorum ban in the past and called "cancer of the server" with the ban notification i can assure you that a simple mail to Wargimmir is the easy way to solve the issue if you are able to communicate in a respectful manner :)

He even has the Mail adress in his signature ....
Warhammer Return of Reckoning
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Erengrad - Order - Frostbringer - Devoras

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wargrimnir
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Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#18 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:54 pm

guido wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:13 am
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:29 am


This is the job I have, this is what I've been doing here for a while. I know where to draw that line and it comes with experience, not because you hurt my feelings. (Uhuh)

It's always personal for other people. ( then why point out the bottom half of the context) I don't know you, I don't care about you more than anyone else. (This attitude is exactly what shouldn't be welcome)

Below This chat made it personal by calling one person out so you can remove him. (Childish behaviour.


Meanwhile, looking at the accounts connected to you, I see a bunch of familiar names, several who aren't welcome on the forums. Which one are you?

Saftdryck
Reesh
freshour
th3gatekeeper
Zod24
JPB
Were you going to make a point or are you just taking jabs? Please confirm you're just taking jabs, that would be a nice start to my morning.
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JPB
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Posts: 2

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#19 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:46 pm

Spoiler:
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:29 am
JPB wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:37 pm

Hello.

I have read some of Discord discussions about the issue, and in a nutshell it's like this:

With a forum suspension, you are not able to contact directly or send direct message to anyone, thus this will leave 2 options;
1. Make a post in appeal, which is frankly common sense with the fact written above
2. Make another account and risk trouble for evading forum suspension in order to contact a GM.

Now i could guess some could try making a contact to you via Discord, but what i have understood, it requires some validation? You need to either accept friend request or be in same Discord server. Issues will be; do you accept the friend request? If the person who's trying to make an appeal can't get validated in your official Discord for whatever reasons.

Now about having a discussion. For what would be the point of it? For an example, the lately suspended and/or banned people and you have a lot of friction between you. Now i understand banter, but assuming their point is even half valid, neither of you are in the right, thus it has become personal in some extent. Whatever they would say, you would stick to your presupposed judgement about their persona and thus wouldn't believe most of their words or assurances would you? Atleast some of them. Now as the whole debacle has become quite absurd, it's likely their only way to view this is trough humour, even if some of it is "toxic" in nature. Even with going trough wrong channels to contact or appeal, which shouldn't be somehow lowering the chances, it seems like there is no chance most of the time due to both sides having clashing views. You can have a discussion, like any civilized people should, even when the views are opposite, but when both are adamant in their "right" and others "wrong"...

The question persists, what would be the point then?
I assume the point of continuing to post on the forums while you have not only a suspended forum account, but a 15 day ban on your in-game account for nazi bullshit, is simply stirring the pot in a game you have no real intent on playing anymore. Why not annoy the few people you can, while you can? What's the worst that could happen?

As Yali pointed out, the vast majority of people that play this game never find themselves at ends with any of the staff. The few people that can't hold a conversation without taking things way too far, or accepting that we simply don't agree with their assessments, usually end up unable to control themselves and would rather be martyred than live in a world where their opinions are dismissed on an internet forum for a game that shut down over 5 years ago.

If you want to come at anyone on the forums directly, offering mental health services because you think they mad and they died to you in PvP, you're gonna have a bad time. Whether it's directed at me, another staff member, or another player doesn't make it personal. It's just trashy, and well beyond offensive. It's not even a matter of growing thick skin. This is the job I have, this is what I've been doing here for a while. I know where to draw that line and it comes with experience, not because you hurt my feelings.

It's always personal for other people. I don't know you, I don't care about you more than anyone else.

Meanwhile, looking at the accounts connected to you, I see a bunch of familiar names, several who aren't welcome on the forums. Which one are you?

Saftdryck
Reesh
freshour
th3gatekeeper
Zod24
JPB
I wasn't about to post anything anymore, since i'm a good law abiding citizen, however you asked for me for an answer. I'l go case by case, point by point.

Let this be known as my last forum post and Eulogy.

1. My accounts are the main Saftdryck and this one.
Zod24 is my friends, which i have played a little bit, quite rarely. Account sharing is allowed, and does not break ToS.

th3gatekeeper i dont know who's it is, my connection to it, was that i logged it once or twise to test Chosen at endgame if i should level one myself. Again, account sharing is not violating anything. This happened like last february? The rest 2 i do not know. My guess someone i have played with/grouped with. Cant fathom what connection they could have to me other than that. Stop sharpneling everyone with those BanGrenades. While you might have genuine reasons to forum ban me, you don't have reasons to ban me in-game. That's just absurd.

2. In what possible logic did you have even in-game ban me for something i posted in forum? For your answer; Yes, i do plan to play with it. As for the "nazi crap", you completely missed the point of the meme, yet you ironically emphasized everything about it. What did i expect? Some sense of humour. If i would have actually came here just to annoy you or whatever, i would have enabled VPN and made new account, yet i did not. That should answer you alot of questions about my reasons.

3. I was one of those people Yali referred. For 5 years i never break any ToS, or take anything too far. Situation now, is that i cannot process this in any other way than humour. Which you seem to have none my man.

4. First i critisized your work and/or decisions behind them. Not you. You started bantering and threaten (this was in tester channel). Then i argued with someone in RoR Discord, and the faults of his logic and the terms he used, which then i asked wouldn't it be better if X, Y and Z, which would provide more accurate results and help him in process. You asked me to cease and desist, which i completely missed in the heat of the argument, that you even did message me (had to scroll up later to see it). Then you started accusing and using terms such as Harassment, and for me who has worked and interracted quite alot of people who has been abused and harassed in life, that use of the term tilted me. I dont like people using these kind of terms to aplly it to everything and thus watering down the meaning behind these words. You proceeded to ban me from RoR Discord for this. I let it be what it was, and never came at you with this. I came to terms long time ago, to not argue with ideologycally posessed people. Fruitless and dishonest.

5. I have never implied or said "you mad, coz bad. You died to me in PvP". I think Enigma well provided the evidence, that no GM/Dev here cant take some corpsejumping and banter for getting destroyed in PvP by superior players. It's like when you apply to such positions, one of the demanded qualities must be not having sense of humour. While i found it funny as hell, everyone knew that would bring just unneeded trouble. Just for an example, some people refused to group up with my surviving, not yet banned guildies for being afraid, that they would be banned too by guild of association. Just think about that really hard.

6. You never answered what would be the point contacting you via Discord/e-mail to discuss the suspension. It's quite clear you would deal with absolutes and demand me to apologise for what i said, and as a man of principles, i will never apologise for saying truth consequences be damned. What i could apologise, would be the way i provided/said the truth if i was too blunt or i offended someone by it. Me saying to you, that you should seek some therapist maybe, wasn't a troll, because clearly you have quite alot of stress. To be frank, i think everyone should visit therapist in regular basis, regardless if the person has issues or not.

Now let's adress this:
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:54 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:29 am
Were you going to make a point or are you just taking jabs? Please confirm you're just taking jabs, that would be a nice start to my morning.
Tell me how is this kind of behaviour; provocation and threats is suitable for a GM? Yet again you provided evidence to everyone, you do what you have always been doing; toxic, incompetent in balance and game mechanics, uncivil, drunk in power, abusive of his GM rights and access. Utterly unacceptable behaviour. If you would behave like this in bigger enterprise or company, you would be forced to resign.

As for "jabs" i wont go there. All i was doign is little bit of sparring. If i would jab a glassjaw like you, it would become a knockout punch.

Goodbye Wargrimnir. I really wish you all good in your future endavours.

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Haskr
Posts: 313

Re: Are forum bans not lifted anymore?

Post#20 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:08 pm

Man, who would have thought that my feud against bans would produce even more bans :cry:
~inactive~

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