How scenario works - Feedback

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

User avatar
flintboth
Posts: 429
Contact:

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#61 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:50 am

6468 posts later... always the same... taunt from angry little kids.
Flood and followers.
Sorry to have shocked the most sensitive.
Orks can't smile they have "too much" teeth ! - gobeline artillerie -

Ads
Ashoris
Posts: 138

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#62 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:55 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:38 am

I suppose this hasn't been addressed terribly recently, but it's the same logic as any time in the past it's been brought up. I wasn't particularly concerned with it so much as the meme that players are being punished in some way.

We don't have an endless pool of players that run scenarios. We have quite a limited one actually, at best you might see 4 concurrent scenarios being run with a fair mix of 31-39 and 40+, many of those 40+ players also aren't in gear that would make them competitive enough to avoid domination against a group that would inevitably trigger it by playing well with a meta comp.

The more complex and fair you make the queue system, the less pops you're going to get. That's the key issue why we're not breaking it up further.

There's also the matter of scenarios not being the top of the pile when it comes to gear. RvR and PvE are the path forward until a new bracket is introduced. If you're not looking to get the gear, being in the queue with an organized group only has one real objective. Crushing the players who are in the queue for gear. That helps no one git gud, if anything it damages the will for players to keep that pool of scenarios healthy. Ever wonder why scens die off? Thank a premade that has nothing to gain from it (occasionally a lucky group of players will have similar results).

This leads down a path of opening a tier of scenarios based on what gear you've acquired. If you already have the gear from existing scenario rewards, then you would get shuffled off to the "we're just in it for renown" leagues, or "competitive scenarios", of which we have the 6v6 queue available.

Would you be comfortable after collecting your first piece of Vanquisher gear being relegated to only 6v6 to grind out the rest?

At the other end, we're looking at a much larger gap, currently topped off with R29 Duelist gear in the mid tier bracket. How far would you expand that? Ruin, Mercenary, and Rare Fortune sets would all be part of the mix going up to R39, along with a lot of weapons and jewelry that vastly outshine anything you would have at R16 where you started at. People join that mid-tier bracket fresh out of Nordland, often times still wearing their T1 sets.

Someone has to take the rough hit, it can be players just making their way into T4, or players just making their way into T2, and when it comes to making the game accessible to new players (ones that find us all the time, every day) tossing them into a meat grinder isn't an option we're looking for.

So fresh T4 players take the hit, someone has to. At R31, you at have a vast number of options to gear up that aren't solely scenarios. Ruin, Beastlord, Gunbad (there's a bolster now), Annihilator, all good sets that will get you XP while acquiring them in the 31-39 range. Also while getting you leveled, and getting you in better position to be competitive when you make the choice to step into the wild world of scenarios.
i had a (not so healthy) discussion with you in the past regarding the timesink needed for "proper" equipment.
Purely from a casual gamer standpoint, and that it will be bad for casual gamers if you need a lot of time to get the "state of the Art" equip.
A lot of your above mentioned arguments would not even there if the equipment is easy to gain.... (yes you will lose some of the player who only want to be superior to others, but ppl who like the Game and PvP would stay)

btw, there are ppl mentioning that in the past of this server (lower lvls, no need for item farm) the SCs and gameplay were more fun and more balanced.
Warhammer Return of Reckoning
Verey / Ashoris / Devoras

WaR -dead-
Erengrad - Order - Frostbringer - Devoras

User avatar
peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#63 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:17 am

Flintboth wrote:We all remember what happen when premade have organized their lil' tournament = BIG WHINE from "pro whiner"
Flintboth wrote:Look at WL burst and chitty compo. As you requested after the sad results of your little tournament...
Flintboth wrote:It is not for competitiveness, it is just to have more cheatty tools to win..."little serial farmers".
Flintboth wrote:Im afraid, when people like you are playing the parcheesi game, when it is your turn to play are you asking for more rolls of the dice to have more competitiveness in game? And your mummy says yes every time?
Flintboth wrote:"I want more competitiveness" lol, you just want more lil' toys, kids
Flintboth wrote:You want more competitiveness in "gear farm"
Flintboth wrote:They whine and harass staff and players every day on the forum and in game...flood and whine...you whine everywhere for more OP tools.
Flintboth wrote:6468 posts later...always the same... taunt from angry little kids.
To reiterate: you have a real chip on your shoulder, my dude. I know you want to think you've triggered me, but comments from an anonymous person aren't gonna do it, 'daddy' (seeing as you love referring to people as 'kids' for some odd & perverse reason).

Not only do your comments sum up how very little you know of the competitive premade scene, but it is also very clear to see that your contempt towards them ('angry little kids') stems from the very likely possibility that you have found yourself on the receiving end of said premades, time and time again, yet have made no effort whatsoever to try and remedy it. Nah - much easier to wallow in self-pity, and hurl crap from afar in the hopes that some of it will stick.

Spoiler:
Image

I assume that you can take it just as well as you give it out, right?
Apologies for derail.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Image

User avatar
sioding
Game Master
Posts: 277

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#64 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:22 am

And here we go - classy derail from a scenario feedback thingy to premade against casual war. I assume two pages and we are locked here.
OCRANA ...deal with it!
Jolinor
Siolor

dansari
Posts: 2478

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#65 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:30 am

flintboth wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:50 am
6468 posts later... always the same... taunt from angry little kids.
Flood and followers.
Sorry to have shocked the most sensitive.
You good?
<Salt Factory>

Dansarann / SW
Dansaram / RP
Dansaren / BW
Dansarii / Eng
Dansari / WH

User avatar
peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#66 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:35 am

sioding wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:22 am
And here we go - classy derail from a scenario feedback thingy to premade against casual war. I assume two pages and we are locked here.
Been a few 'derail' posts since Page Three, and Mr Flint has contributed his fair share since Page Five, yet the conversation hasn't stopped. Just felt that the guy should be called out for his complete disregard in his accusations/ignorance to certain things, but apologies for the derail nonetheless.
Image

User avatar
flintboth
Posts: 429
Contact:

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#67 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:54 am

Yes I m a bit angry, I have eat that chip you speaking before...
Under the pretext of competitveness you push too far a good game who tend to become your farm.
I m not running for every new or old mmo, I have play Warhammer Online on live until its end, I have search for others one but never found one like this.
I see you asking many things for your own game conception, look at not killing the golden goose as I say.
All scenarios change have been made to force players to group up all we have now is less scenario, look dead.
Forum is your place... good luck with your lobby.
Orks can't smile they have "too much" teeth ! - gobeline artillerie -

User avatar
peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#68 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:21 pm

flintboth wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:54 am
Yes I m a bit angry, I have eat that chip you speaking before...
Under the pretext of competitveness you push too far a good game who tend to become your farm.
I m not running for every new or old mmo, I have play Warhammer Online on live until its end, I have search for others one but never found one like this.
I see you asking many things for your own game conception, look at not killing the golden goose as I say.
All scenarios change have been made to force players to group up all we have now is less scenario, look dead.
Forum is your place... good luck with your lobby.
I really don't think we're playing the same game, because: a) SC are no longer competitive at all anymore, b) the calibre of PvP in SC has decreased steadily, year by year, c) there are less premades queuing for SC these days, d) it is actually getting increasingly harder to 'farm' rewards in SC (high emblem costs + Domination changes + no pops during Forts).

You have never, ever been forced to 'group up' in SC (whereas grouping up for other parts of the game is, in fact, mandatory), and up until the recent changes to SC manager, farming the PUG SC was actually the most effective way to get your gear: you avoided premades, PUG SC popped incredibly often, you usually had a semi-decent map that would end fast (Gates of Ekrund, Nordenwatch, the occasional Tor Anroc - not bad at all), and you could make a complete mockery out of it with a strong duo, like BG/DPS DOK, or Sorc/Zealot.
Image

Ads
Akalukz
Posts: 596

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#69 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:01 pm

IF gear is one of the primary issues, why not up the bolster to a reasonable level in scenarios, possibly a RR bolster, say equivalent to conq gear or whatever. Still 2 gear levels behind to top notches, but loads better than ruin. For 31-40+RR50, if they are past 50 and still rocking low-level gear, then that's their problem because even a casual can be in conq by RR50. Could go as far as creating separate bolsters, put together a team to discuss bolster by class / race or whatever, and come up with a solution for the gear gap.
-= Agony =-

User avatar
toffikx
Posts: 70

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#70 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:13 pm

I guess i'll use the oppurtunity to throw in my two cents.

There's nonthing more frustrating (in this game) than being a solo player and encountering a well-rounded premade, which despite different factors and situation, will always bounce back and have the upper hand. In this regard, a system which ends "one-way" scenarios is just and I would believe everyones agrees with such a system. I know there's been some issues around how it should work and such, but the general idea is fine.

Forming a decent enough "counter-premade" if you don't have good disord groups or guild/alliances, is usually a hard thing. /5 works seldom and it only gets worse during low pops. It should also be said that a premade of random people, or people with little/medium knowledge of the game will usually be stompted by the know-hows.

I believe many ideas has been put to "balance" out the scenarios. From more radical ones, like disabling grouping altogether, to suggestions for more pug scenarios/more premade-only scenarios. The latter one sounds good on paper, but are they realistic with current population? That's the main issue, if there would be like 10k ppl playing EU/NA, then it would't be a problem.

Also, regarding the que system, there's been some talk that 2h-tanks get different quqe priority than SnB tanks? Is this really a thing? I think that's been said many times before, but the choice of your weapon does not determinate how much damage you deal, or your usefulness as a tank archetype for that matter, in a small scale/scenario enviroment. It's rather a gameplay issue, like using your guard and sticking to your guard target, making use of knockdown/punt, using challenge etc.

New players/players who want to expand their knowledge of the game could have use a of
a "useful addons/important mechanics" thread. Small things like showing Guard in your Buffhead addon or using the assist addon, can have a big impact on gameplay. The standard UI have been badly developed in that regard, but that's another issue and the original developers fault. I was thinking about making such a thread in the "beginner Survival Kit" sub-forum, but anyone with knowledge about central addons/mechanics can make one too, for that matter.

Another thing, that's been said too, is the grind for the sc gear (read weapons). Even with constant premades and win streaks it's a long way to go. If you are a solo player getting stompted with 1 emblem after a scenario and with minimal rr/xp after several minutes, that's frustrating and discouraging.

So, here's my ideas ; lower the cost of sc gear/make the rewards better. 3-4 emblems for lossing side and additional emblems depending on performance (kills,points etc.) and 10-14 emblems for win. Also, have better xp/renown rewards even if you loose, to motivate people to sign up. While still keeping superior rewards for the winning side.
More pug scenarios? 1-2 more? Will the population handle that? I don't know. Everything subjects to testing, and if something doesn't work, it can be reverted.

Sorry for the Trump Wall, just some things that I had in my head for a longer time. I don't say my ideas are better or more right. They are just that,ideas.

Now flame me.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: larsulu and 17 guests