How scenario works - Feedback

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Rockalypse
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#41 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:35 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:18 pm
Feedback that can help us reach that goal is more than welcome. Feedback that you are very sad about uncontested killfarming being discouraged is pretty much what we expected.

If you have suggestions for additional checks to prevent abuse of the mechanic, that would be fine. We're updating it as we find more creative ways to circumvent it.
Let me try to give my 5 cents on matter.
The goal of all changes, as stated is to keep people from kill farming and ignoring objective.
Tool that is used is to give whip to overperforming side that - domination win that gives less rewards.

I think with current approach, if you stick to it - you should give overperforming side tools to end domination by doing objective, effectively forcing it to draw back and do objective in one way or another. This won't help with another team performance at all, as they are msotelike stomped for objective reasons like gear/skil/compostion, but the spawnkilling will be reduced.

As example:
* Bring objective SC (Talabec dam) if domination kicks in - give attackers ability to stop it by bringing bomb (some kind of check for number of people involved may be added so it won't boil down to 1 man running while team is farming).
* Flag objective SC (Battle of Praag) - make points reset overtime (faster than it is) and allow same mechanism to stop domination by recapping (same player count check can be made for same reason).

Without such or similar mechanism in place overperforming side even without spawncamping can find itself in postition where other team just keeps dying and dominations kicks, even if people do objective which looks futile.

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Ashoris
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#42 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:39 pm

Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:35 pm
abodam wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:06 pm
Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:36 pm
Just disable group queueing all together. See how that goes for a while.
Oh yes, take out the social aspect of playing MMORPG. Might as well go play Skyrim at that point.
Not at all what I mean, I just mean disable queuing as a group, change it to be able to solo queue while grouped :) What are they going for, the small subset of players that are causing this issue (pug farming) or the pugs. If they are trying to please the pugs (which I am occasionally) then make more solo queues and less "group" queues. Give priority to solo / duo and less priority to groups or disable group queueing. This is an alpha phase, they can make changes to see how it goes, no one says that they can't revert said changes.

Problem is: you only notice the good grps, there are plenty of grps queuing who are casual Players too and you can beat them with a decent random selcetion... on the other hand a loose combination of good players is often called out as a premade ....
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flintboth
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#43 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:43 pm

Sad.
We all know the problem.
We have all stopped to queue for some good reasons.
Some unbalanced class, abused compo., from some players and groups.
We all remember what happen when premade have organized their lil' tournament some months ago = BIG WHINE from "pro whiner" because of the SM + WL + SW compo.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31323&hilit=white+ ... t&start=90
Don't be surprised if scenario are dead now, you have killed the golden goose.
Unbalance from class, compo. and OP gear is less visible on RvR, with the big scales.
Have scenarios for charachters 31 to 40 is totaly UNFAIR, we all have seen groups level 40 only running the scenarios against low level.
Before to ask and flood to have more mechanics for premades ask to have scenarios T4 for level 40 only, make gear less OP and look at WL burst and chitty compo. As you requested after the sad results of your little tournament...
Later on RvR.
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Ashoris
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#44 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:46 pm

Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:46 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:16 pm
Pretty impressed that people are actually advocating for removal of premades in SC/limiting available SC for premades, but MAN! - am I not surprised anymore?

SC frequency hasn't changed whatsoever, though there are less premade queuing now, which is probably a plus, right!
Just seems like an easy change to see if the premade are the issue or if "people" just like to camp/give up. is there more competition for the majority if you take out the minority or is it just more of the same. As was said earlier, if it is truly about competition in the premade mindset, then why isn't the premade only scenario always running full tilt.

EDIT: Also, could look into some changes on queueing from groups/warbands. Make "open" warbands be able to queue from, while closed ones you can't.
easy answer to that, because of different levls of premades, there is adifference to meet up with some friends and play together or building a Team for competitive matches.

Think about it as a sports hobby team .... there are ppl who play just for fun as a team and everyone of their frineds are welcome - while other teams picking a handful of friends and letting only them play at specific positions .... both types like to play as a team but a match against each other is just not fair.

There is simply not only 1 way to play as a team and not all teams are equal :)
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peterthepan3
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#45 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:17 pm

flintboth wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:43 pm
Sad.
We all know the problem.
We have all stopped to queue for some good reasons.
Some unbalanced class, abused compo., from some players and groups.
We all remember what happen when premade have organized their lil' tournament some months ago = BIG WHINE from "pro whiner" because of the SM + WL + SW compo.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31323&hilit=white+ ... t&start=90
Don't be surprised if scenario are dead now, you have killed the golden goose.
Unbalance from class, compo. and OP gear is less visible on RvR, with the big scales.
Have scenarios for charachters 31 to 40 is totaly UNFAIR, we all have seen groups level 40 only running the scenarios against low level.
Before to ask and flood to have more mechanics for premades ask to have scenarios T4 for level 40 only, make gear less OP and look at WL burst and chitty compo. As you requested after the sad results of your little tournament...
Later on RvR.
Funny you should mention that tournament because, despite the initial whine and the fact that people were taken unawares by the potency of ASW/GWL, Destro premades have actually adapted: effective counters to the ASW/GWL have come about in the form of Mara/DPS DOK (to help alleviate the damage), and the whine is pretty much no more now that people have had time to go back to the drawing board, and explore different comps in an effort to maximise their chances of success.

Can the same be said for most other players? No - easier to both whine incessantly and do nothing about it, right?

Not that I don't think certain aspects of certain classes are a tad OTT, but to dismiss the decline in SC participation from PvP players/premades as some sort of mass protest to perceived realm imbalances is absolutely false.
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flintboth
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#46 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:32 pm

the scenarios was all about farm those last months, unfun, unfair and madness.
There are many things really OP we all know about and they are some players who exploit this against casual players.
Join a scenario was a fresh and fun "interlude", they have becomes a nightmare because of all those things totaly OP and exploited.
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toffikx
Posts: 74

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#47 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:32 pm

Population a bit too low for some ideas to be functioning.
Last edited by toffikx on Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nadril21
Posts: 42

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#48 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:41 pm

flintboth wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:43 pm
Have scenarios for charachters 31 to 40 is totaly UNFAIR, we all have seen groups level 40 only running the scenarios against low
Too much focus is being put on domination/premades. The level and gear gap is, and always has been, the biggest factor in these blowouts that make people stop quing.

Level 31-39s should have their own SC bracket (or you can have them thrown into the 40 bracket if quing as a group).

Premades aren't this impossible force to be beat. All it takes is a few good players on the opposing team and it can be a fun match, if not an outright win. What does make fighting premades impossible is being forced to try to fight them with 5+ people that are sub 40, meanwhile they are rocking a full 12man of 40's.

Penalizing people for killing in a PVP game isn't the right answer. Too much attention is being put on how to take these bad SCs out back and shoot them in the head, instead of trying to avoid the imbalance from the get-go
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wargrimnir
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#49 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:24 am

Nadril21 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:41 pm

Premades aren't this impossible force to be beat. All it takes is a few good players on the opposing team and it can be a fun match, if not an outright win. What does make fighting premades impossible is being forced to try to fight them with 5+ people that are sub 40, meanwhile they are rocking a full 12man of 40's.

Penalizing people for killing in a PVP game isn't the right answer. Too much attention is being put on how to take these bad SCs out back and shoot them in the head, instead of trying to avoid the imbalance from the get-go
We don't intend to have Domination affect scenarios that are reasonably close in kills or score.

Domination is intended to end scenarios in which one realm dominates the other to the point that the defending team has no chance.

You're not penalized for killing players in any of this.
You're not FULLY rewarded for being on the side of the dominating team however, that's a bit of a difference in context.

If we wanted to punish players for getting kills there are far more interesting ways to do so.
You might LOSE renown. You might receive a Quitter debuff that lasts much longer than normal. You might get sent to the moon.

These are punishments.

What you're concerned with is not being able to overwhelmingly crush your enemies and receive full rewards for it.
FULL rewards, as in maybe 2-3 more emblems.
You still GET rewards for Domination. 1 for winning, 1 per 100 objective points.
You can still take the scenario quests and complete them due to a Domination win.
You still get renown for kills even DURING the Domination buff.

The scenario ends quickly after Domination is triggered.

Hyperventilating about being punished is silly.
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Sypz
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#50 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:41 am

Hey all,

I'm fairly new to RoR, and are yet to have any max level character. So as someone fresh off the boat my experience with SC's is mixed.

I dont mind losing vs a group of organized players that obviously put a great deal of time, effort and brains into how they execute their strategy. Actually this is what gives any competetive element in any game simmilar its real "oumph". However, there are just as many ways to approach playing the game and sc's as there are players. Cause people play for a plethora of reasons and balancing sc game modes around curbstomping proves to be a challenge no matter what game.

What deters me from queuing sc's is not the premade wash, but the instant finger pointing from some players. Expecting me, as the only healer on my side of the stride, to keep everyone alive vs said opponent, being premade or just good solo players. The instant loser attitude feels more detrimental to a sc than being stomped.

Ive been in great comeback scs where a few good souls pointed people in the right direction, where we end up winning by 10 points etc. And sc's where people have given up before it even started, based soley on which other classes that joined their side vs the competitors (5 vs 1 healer is a common example). In the latter, it's great to end things quickly.

How about giving the losing side a buff, or something simmilar when being dominated, to encourage at least a way to make it possible for a comeback (quad damage, hardened skin, etc etc). This could also encourage the losing side to play the objective more and at the same time give the winning side more competition or a way to adapt and conquer again. Of course in some matchups the skill diff is too great for a time limited buff to make any diffrence. But at least it could give the players a tool or torch in the tunnel to make your team get a glimpse of light.

Domination have been a thing in many fps games, and the first time I experienced it were in quake. The idea is good, but hard to translate into a game like war with so many other aspects to the gameplay other than kills.

I dont queue for 3 minute games, I want to at least try to win. No matter the outcome. Then again I want to play, not sit around spawn and bicker.

Damn, sorry for the wall of text. Just a newbs 2c.

Cheers!
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