How scenario works - Feedback

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toffikx
Posts: 74

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#31 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:07 pm

Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:36 pm
Just disable group queueing all together. See how that goes for a while.
lol

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Hienzwar
Posts: 95

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#32 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:12 pm

Arthem wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:05 pm
There was already more incentive to play the objective before last weeks changes. If you ignore the objective and farm players you'll lose on points to backcapping, you will earn less renown and less rewards. I don't know why we are pretending there was no incentive to do flags.

Hienzwar wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:30 am
From a T4 perspective SC's are in a far better place with the recent changes, yes you have the premades who will roll the majority of pugs but the domination mechanic means that the wc farm is lessened and more people are joining meaning mores sc's.

While a solo q'er or as a 3 man if you come across a 6man who can assist then you are pretty much done, not a question of being better or getting good. If you want a chance of winning set up a team, talk and assist.

When you say "set up a team" and assist you realize thats counter intuitive to winning the scenario right? That will result in scenarios ending in domination for you. Since no matter what happens, whether you spawn camp or focus purely on the objective, if you succeed in combat you'll be kicked out.
That was a direct answer to previous points made by Peter, in reference to getting rolled by premade groups - sorry no quote.

The point however isnt counter intuitive, if you have a team and can actually dent the enemy you are unlikely to be camped and therefore more likely to win - be it through a fairer fight ( yea i know ) or by playing to the objective.

I respect what you are saying however my opinion is the changes are making sc's faster and i see more people taking part - can only be good.

Akalukz
Posts: 596

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#33 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:35 pm

abodam wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:06 pm
Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:36 pm
Just disable group queueing all together. See how that goes for a while.
Oh yes, take out the social aspect of playing MMORPG. Might as well go play Skyrim at that point.
Not at all what I mean, I just mean disable queuing as a group, change it to be able to solo queue while grouped :) What are they going for, the small subset of players that are causing this issue (pug farming) or the pugs. If they are trying to please the pugs (which I am occasionally) then make more solo queues and less "group" queues. Give priority to solo / duo and less priority to groups or disable group queueing. This is an alpha phase, they can make changes to see how it goes, no one says that they can't revert said changes.
-= Agony =-

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#34 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:16 pm

Pretty impressed that people are actually advocating for removal of premades in SC/limiting available SC for premades, but MAN! - am I not surprised anymore.

SC frequency hasn't changed whatsoever, though there are less premades queuing now, which is probably a plus, right!
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Akalukz
Posts: 596

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#35 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:46 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:16 pm
Pretty impressed that people are actually advocating for removal of premades in SC/limiting available SC for premades, but MAN! - am I not surprised anymore?

SC frequency hasn't changed whatsoever, though there are less premade queuing now, which is probably a plus, right!
Just seems like an easy change to see if the premade are the issue or if "people" just like to camp/give up. is there more competition for the majority if you take out the minority or is it just more of the same. As was said earlier, if it is truly about competition in the premade mindset, then why isn't the premade only scenario always running full tilt.

EDIT: Also, could look into some changes on queueing from groups/warbands. Make "open" warbands be able to queue from, while closed ones you can't.
-= Agony =-

Alfa1986
Posts: 265

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#36 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:04 pm

Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:46 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:16 pm
Pretty impressed that people are actually advocating for removal of premades in SC/limiting available SC for premades, but MAN! - am I not surprised anymore?

SC frequency hasn't changed whatsoever, though there are less premade queuing now, which is probably a plus, right!
Also, could look into some changes on queueing from groups/warbands. Make "open" warbands be able to queue from, while closed ones you can't.
this change will be enough

14. to create it possible to appoint in the warband in each group an assistant to the leader, who can join in the queue to sn all own group, if it was allowed by the leader in the warband's settings. and here it’s not a question of pug warbands, if the pug leaders want they always can prohibit join to the queue on scs in the settings, but the fact is that it is very inconvenient for guild warbands. if which one group wants to go on scs, it is forced to exit from the warband, this is really inconvenient. also assistant leaders in each group within their group have to control the composition, kick and invite players, punish for afk, form a balanced group. this will make the management of the warband more clear, and people more involved in the game.

all my other suggestions for improving the scs can be found here, if anyone is interested :)
Spoiler:

1 make visual statistics of scenarios, if it is of course possible. It would be nice to see which classes are in the queue, how many of them are premads, and how many pugs, the level of players too, as an example: a table is displayed where it shows that from the side of the order in the queue 5 tanks, 10 dd, 2 healers, from the side of destro 10 tanks, 15 dd, 3 healers. since a lot of people have several characters, then to play scenarios more often, they can simply start playing with a class that is currently not enough. but this is not the main thing, and most importantly it can increase the time management in the game, that is, you can immediately see whether it is worthwhile trying to join in the queue (if at this moment there are enough players for the sc), or go to do other things (like dungeons, rvr, etc).

2 so it would not be bad if there were a quest NPC(sc) in each rvr zone, and not only in the main city.

3 make pug SCs on 2-3 different maps. Yes, maybe premades will play less with pugs, but is it really interesting for premades to play with pugs?

4 to increase the experience for losing, for 40 lvl it will not give anything, but for 31-39 lvl it will be a good incentive to join the sc. if it is fashionable to get 50-80 thousand experience + 20 k per quest for the won scene, then it will be fair to lose 30-50 thousand for the loss, then the scenarios will be a good alternative for leveling. only experience, not renown.

5 to enter additional rewards. as an example, temporary talismans (7 days) for something very rare (+ 3..5% crit, power, block, speed atack) (can be installed only on the shoulders or better in pocket), for 500+ oppressor emblems, either improved potions.

6 Introduce alternative jewelry for oppressor emblems, the same as the genesis, which would be an incentive to play scenarios. let it be for a very high price, each piece of 500-1000 oppressor emblems, but still it will be a choice to either play the scenarios with confidence knowing that you will earn it, or to rely on luck and wait for the blue bag.

7 Well, you can come up with various events, and rewards during the week. tournament for premads with special awards ... (tote, bets for observers :mrgreen: )
8. To add new maps. Someone recently offered to give castles, caves, ruins, leers that are in empty pve zones to various guilds. The question is, can it be used to make new maps for scenarios? For example, "cut out" a lock from various the PQs, remove mobs from there, place objects and make a new map? Well, either to come up with a plot for a new scenario ... it doesn’t matter, I think if you give the task to the community to come up with a plot for the scenario there will be many interesting good suggestions. The main thing is a new location for new maps. If it were possible then it would be great.
9. Revise the cost / reward for scs, especially for classes that cannot buy weapons in parts such as bw, sorc, etc. It would not be bad to reduce the cost for them by 15-25%. for two months of the game I have a full conq 5 things vanq, and I can even buy two things inv, but I can not afford to buy a single thing oppressor. my opinion the cost of sc awards is too high. Give opressor emblems for quests for 60+ lvl.
10. Show estimated wait time until next scenario. And it’s better to create a mapping of virtual groups that are currently in the queue to join the sc. if 2 dps, 2 healers and 2 tanks have their own groups in rvr, and they all decided to sign up for the sc, an open virtual group is created that anyone can see in the frame of the open groups, just to see the pop scs at the moment and the missing classes.
11. Create 1 test scenario map without healers, or rather even without the ability to restore hp, including potions.
12. Revise the criteria for domination, domination should not punish the winners. And it’s better to cancel it altogether, and revise the system for calculating points and receiving a renown. In the scenario, there are two types of rewards: renown received and the experience (useless for 40), the medals received. At the moment, there is some imbalance in the system, for example, you can lose the sc, but get a much more renown from the killings than the winning team. For example, the score of the scenario may be 309-500, but the average amount of renown gained is 1500-5000. It follows that the goals of the scenario for the teams can be different, the first goal is to obtain maximum fame, the second goal is to obtain medals.
13. Each character currently has 2 empty slots for pve tactics. Why not adapt them to sc awards? In order to increase the popularity of the scs, you can make every person do at least 10 scs a day, for this, let there be 2 tactics, one to increase gained renown (25% as from a potion), the other to increase gained experience in dungeons (for farming sentinel ring for exm). In order to activate this tactic you need 10-20 special points, 1 point is given for 1 scenario(doznt matter win or lose just for doing). Thus, each person who log on to the game is likely to play 10 scenarios first, and only then go to the dungeon or to the lake. The tactics are temporary, given for 24 hours, points also burn out.

14. to create it possible to appoint in the warband in each group an assistant to the leader, who can join in the queue to sn all own group, if it was allowed by the leader in the warband's settings. and here it’s not a question of pug warbands, if the pug leaders want they always can prohibit join to the queue on scs in the settings, but the fact is that it is very inconvenient for guild warbands. if which one group wants to go on scs, it is forced to exit from the warband, this is really inconvenient.
15. There is the situations when strongs lock the weak in the wc. to exclude such cases, it is necessary to increase the damage from the cannons to 3 k non-blocking over a large area with a reload of 1 second, increase the radius of damage, increase the range of the cannons. after that, as some sort of premade decides to lock someone to the wc, and it takes 3 k+ 3 k+ 3 k damage in 1 second from 3 cannons, and it will never do it anymore, I'm sure).
Last edited by Alfa1986 on Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eisenhans
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Posts: 63

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#37 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:19 pm

Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:36 pm
Just disable group queueing all together. See how that goes for a while.
Ha! Man, that will lead to massive butthurt, because as we know, most "elites" don't just want to win, they want all others to suffer. But why not? This will force pug vs pug pretty much and without their buddies to support them, it may show some people that they aren't nearly as "elite" as they want to believe.

I'm for it, just as a test, maybe a week or two to see what happens.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#38 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:29 pm

eisenhans wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:19 pm
Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:36 pm
Just disable group queueing all together. See how that goes for a while.
Ha! Man, that will lead to massive butthurt, because as we know, most "elites" don't just want to win, they want all others to suffer. But why not? This will force pug vs pug pretty much and without their buddies to support them, it may show some people that they aren't nearly as "elite" as they want to believe.

I'm for it, just as a test, maybe a week or two to see what happens.
/kek

But of course you're up for it, you poor, defenceless victim!

We should also give 255 RR points to pugs only, and see if this helps fix the (perceived-yet-not-really-there) 'issue'. Throw in some free Genesis at the end of a lost SC to the losers, too, and really give those Big Bad Bullies the finger.

All forms of group play in this 'PvP MMO' should be marginalised, demonised, and then criminalised. How dare you be one of those groups who simply wants to play the game with your mates with no competitive desire attached to your gameplay!

Let's fix the 'issue' together, today, for a safer and happier tomorrow!

/kek

Even if you remove premades, bad/lazy players who are ever eager to attribute their failings to external factors ('xrealmers! realm imbalance! wtf i died in 0.002 seconds, no I don't use pots') will still get farmed by good players, because good players, even when they're alone, or in duos, know how to adapt to the situation. You'll still end up with Mickey Mouse compositions, consisting of 4 DPS RPs, 3 2h WPs and 2 Slayers, because you will still have no desire whatsoever to optimise your play, hoping for the system to do it all for you, and so competent solo and duo players who know how to play together will have a field day.

Premade or no premade is irrelevant: good players will always make a mockery of bad players, hospitalising them in record speed, capitalising on their defeatist, incessantly whiney attitudes, and force them to their respective Warcamps to lament about how unfair their lot is.

Having said that, at this stage let's just skip the foreplay, and go balls deep. Let's do it! I really can't wait to see what the next external factor that people will attribute their failings to is gonna be.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Akalukz
Posts: 596

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#39 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:46 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:29 pm
eisenhans wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:19 pm
Akalukz wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:36 pm
Just disable group queueing all together. See how that goes for a while.
Ha! Man, that will lead to massive butthurt, because as we know, most "elites" don't just want to win, they want all others to suffer. But why not? This will force pug vs pug pretty much and without their buddies to support them, it may show some people that they aren't nearly as "elite" as they want to believe.

I'm for it, just as a test, maybe a week or two to see what happens.
/kek

But of course you're up for it, you poor, defenceless victim!

We should also give 255 RR points to pugs only, and see if this helps fix the (perceived-yet-not-really-there) 'issue'. Throw in some free Genesis at the end of a lost SC to the losers, too, and really give those Big Bad Bullies the finger.

All forms of group play in this 'PvP MMO' should be marginalised, demonised, and then criminalised. How dare you be one of those groups who simply wants to play the game with your mates with no competitive desire attached to your gameplay!

Let's fix the 'issue' together, today, for a safer and happier tomorrow!

/kek

Even if you remove premades, trash players who are ever eager to attribute their failings to external factors ('xrealmers! realm imbalance! wtf i died in 0.002 seconds, no I don't use pots') will still get farmed by good players, because good players, even when they're alone, or in duos, know how to adapt to the situation. You'll still end up with Mickey Mouse compositions, consisting of 4 DPS RPs, 3 2h WPs and 2 Slayers, because you will still have no desire whatsoever to optimise your play, hoping for the system to do it all for you, and so competent solo and duo players who know how to play together will have a field day.

Premade or no premade is irrelevant: good players will always make a mockery of bad players, hospitalising them in record speed, capitalising on their defeatist, incessantly whiney attitudes, and force them to their respective Warcamps to lament about how unfair their lot is.
Then put it to the test, put the majority of the rotation on solo/duo see how it really goes. You would think you might before it to prove it out. I am just trying to come up with a solution, which is what the dev's are also doing. Unfortunately for a lot of people dedicating time/energy to building a group is a luxury many of us don't have. I play for an hour a night here and there, i don't want to spend 45 mins looking for a group just to play 15 mins. Why not gravitate towards solo players, i would think the vast majority of the population is solo players. EDIT: to add, i don't really care either way as I don't do Scenarios (because of this issue) just as I don't do dungeon's because of the time factor. And I am fine with that.... but I would probably do more scenarios if the chances of not running up against a premade wasn't almost 100% guaranteed.
-= Agony =-

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#40 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:54 pm

Yes! Let's pander more to people who have 0.0045 minutes to play every 3 years. I'm sorry, man, but if you honestly aren't prepared/able to commit even a small amount into an MMO (not your fault in your case, I would wager), then it's kinda unfair to **** on those who are/can. It's the nature of MMOs. There are other game genres out there that are better suited to people with such time constraints.

We are looking so desperately for a solution to an issue that has been blown completely out of proportion. It's about time we assign blame to people other than those who play to win, which, although happens to include those who group up, isn't restricted to groups at all.
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