How scenario works - Feedback

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Eathisword
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How scenario works - Feedback

Post#1 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:33 pm

Well... its been a little over a week now. The new scenario domination ways of life is meh.

1- I'm all for scen ending quicker when its 30 kills to 0. No problem there, seconds ticking faster is fine. I don'T like it, but if its what Devs believe is PvP, be it.

2- Gear set from scenario have insane amount of emblems needed. 1500 x 2 for weapon. over 1000 for oppressor set. Its really bad when more than half the scens ends without any team getting 500 points. This should be reverted. The winner should get his points up to 500. There are too many scens where it is easy to ''block'' the enemy to gather points. Most of the carry the flag, or single flag capping scens. Stack tanks and heal on top. it ends 50-75 and scores that don't make sense.

Proposition : when the domination kicks in and seconds tick faster, let the points freeze as they are now, if you intend to keep scenarios like that. But when domination isn't in action, meaning both teams are really fighting for it, let the points go to 500 near the end. Otherwise it makes a bad grind be even more bad.

If scenarios are to be boring ''captheflag'' stuff from now on, at least make it so you get your emblems when you fight it out 15 minutes without domination.

As a side note : all the new mechanic does is make players check the kill count. Kill 12 or 15 whatever, stop killing them, cap the flag and wait,when you have enough points, go kill them again and let domination kick in. IT really doesn't achieve any goal tbh, except a brief 3-5 minutes where you go cap stuff.

Side note 2 : you have people on the losing that can literally suicide into the enemy to trigger domination to make sure they dont get their points as they wont have time. Its really ''fun'' for everyone.

sidenote 3 : why not include in the rotation deathmatch scenario where there is no mechanic at all ? Like make it half and half. Pick a couple of maps and just remove the flag and stuff. Could worth a try.
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wargrimnir
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#2 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:06 pm

I wasn't quite sure we had enough concurrent threads related to scenarios running. Maybe everyone will repeat their concerns here as well for good measure.
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Eathisword
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#3 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:10 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:06 pm
I wasn't quite sure we had enough concurrent threads related to scenarios running. Maybe everyone will repeat their concerns here as well for good measure.
In my line of work the saying goes : if you repeat it enough, one day, they'll understand :P
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wargrimnir
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#4 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:18 pm

Eathisword wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:10 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:06 pm
I wasn't quite sure we had enough concurrent threads related to scenarios running. Maybe everyone will repeat their concerns here as well for good measure.
In my line of work the saying goes : if you repeat it enough, one day, they'll understand :P
Alas, the difference between understanding and coming to the same conclusion may be tricky if we have different objectives and goals.

We're not looking to destroy PvP as many have made a meme about it. Very mature those memes, easy to dismiss and such. The goal is to mitigate spawn camping and one sided stomps. Feedback that can help us reach that goal is more than welcome. Feedback that you are very sad about uncontested killfarming being discouraged is pretty much what we expected.

If you have suggestions for additional checks to prevent abuse of the mechanic, that would be fine. We're updating it as we find more creative ways to circumvent it.
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Akilinus
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#5 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:33 pm

Improve the objectives instead of trying to force the players to run objectives. Same with RvR, you could not stop players from zerging so you tried to force players to stop by not giving any rp from kills if the enemy side had AAO.
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wargrimnir
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#6 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:59 pm

Akilinus wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:33 pm
Improve the objectives instead of trying to force the players to run objectives. Same with RvR, you could not stop players from zerging so you tried to force players to stop by not giving any rp from kills if the enemy side had AAO.
Improve the objectives how? Give you more points for kills if something something objective?

Objective points are part of the equation to keep Dom from going off if people are actually doing them. Instead people feel forced to do objectives or else they're not allowed to farm kills. Interesting mindset to have, can't say I commiserate. Seems like those are the people the rule change is intended for?

Why do you fight usually has a reason. To get the thing obviously! Thing being a flag, or a bomb, or a ball. This hasn't changed.
You also have to kill people to get the thing!
This hasn't changed either!

If you have the thing, and get all the kills, and the other team literally can't even, what is that? This is a game? This is fun? This totally isn't killing the morale for the other team to even play scenarios?

Certainly everyone has been on the team that gets blown out 20-0 in kills and stands at their spawn waiting to die. Well now the timer goes down faster. If no one is having FUN, what are the rewards for? Good job buddy, you just griefed them so hard on their spawn they quit. Here's a full bucket of rewards.

Is that what we should encourage? Really?
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peterthepan3
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#7 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:17 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:59 pm


Certainly everyone has been on the team that gets blown out 20-0 in kills and stands at their spawn waiting to die. Well now the timer goes down faster. If no one is having FUN, what are the rewards for? Good job buddy, you just griefed them so hard on their spawn they quit. Here's a full bucket of rewards.

Is that what we should encourage? Really?
You're 'encouraging' playing properly by giving full rewards to the side who wins. You didn't 'grief' anyone; you merely capitalised on the disarray of your opposition. It's their problem if they decide to queue for all SC, knowing that premades/strong 2/3-mans are queuing on the other realm, while taking no action (i.e bringing a healer, or a tank, forming a group themselves, pots, etc.) whatsoever.

Fun is irrelevant in this context: we all know that 90% of SC tend to be boring curbstomps (wasn't always the case when people were somewhat organised and the game wasn't as puggified), but that shouldn't mean that the people who are doing the beating should be penalised for exploiting their opponents' lack of organisational skills. As others have already mentioned, the grind is comparatively pretty intense as it is, which isn't a bad thing, per se, but it doesn't really need measures to make it even lengthier. 2c.

If people quit after being farmed, instead of going back to the drawing board, seeing what they did wrong, fixing the problem etc., then that is their prerogative. There are other games out there better suited to defeatist players who don't want to put in minimal effort in their gameplay.
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Akilinus
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#8 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:28 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:59 pm
Akilinus wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:33 pm
Improve the objectives instead of trying to force the players to run objectives. Same with RvR, you could not stop players from zerging so you tried to force players to stop by not giving any rp from kills if the enemy side had AAO.
Improve the objectives how? Give you more points for kills if something something objective?

Objective points are part of the equation to keep Dom from going off if people are actually doing them. Instead people feel forced to do objectives or else they're not allowed to farm kills. Interesting mindset to have, can't say I commiserate. Seems like those are the people the rule change is intended for?

Why do you fight usually has a reason. To get the thing obviously! Thing being a flag, or a bomb, or a ball. This hasn't changed.
You also have to kill people to get the thing!
This hasn't changed either!

If you have the thing, and get all the kills, and the other team literally can't even, what is that? This is a game? This is fun? This totally isn't killing the morale for the other team to even play scenarios?

Certainly everyone has been on the team that gets blown out 20-0 in kills and stands at their spawn waiting to die. Well now the timer goes down faster. If no one is having FUN, what are the rewards for? Good job buddy, you just griefed them so hard on their spawn they quit. Here's a full bucket of rewards.

Is that what we should encourage? Really?
Personally I fight for the fight :). Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.
Seems like the problem is good vs bad players not sure how you are going to force everyone to be good.
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wargrimnir
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Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#9 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:40 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:17 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:59 pm


Certainly everyone has been on the team that gets blown out 20-0 in kills and stands at their spawn waiting to die. Well now the timer goes down faster. If no one is having FUN, what are the rewards for? Good job buddy, you just griefed them so hard on their spawn they quit. Here's a full bucket of rewards.

Is that what we should encourage? Really?
You're 'encouraging' playing properly by giving full rewards to the side who wins. You didn't 'grief' anyone; you merely capitalised on the disarray of your opposition. It's their problem if they decide to queue for all SC, knowing that premades/strong 2/3-mans are queuing on the other realm, while taking no action (i.e bringing a healer, or a tank, forming a group themselves, pots, etc.) whatsoever.

Fun is irrelevant in this context: we all know that 90% of SC tend to be boring curbstomps (wasn't always the case when people were somewhat organised and the game wasn't as puggified), but that shouldn't mean that the people who are doing the beating should be penalised for exploiting their opponents' lack of organisational skills. As others have already mentioned, the grind is comparatively pretty intense as it is, which isn't a bad thing, per se, but it doesn't really need measures to make it even lengthier. 2c.

If people quit after being farmed, instead of going back to the drawing board, seeing what they did wrong, fixing the problem etc., then that is their prerogative. There are other games out there better suited to defeatist players who don't want to put in minimal effort in their gameplay.
I'm pretty sure we wasted a whole bunch of time setting up a 6v6 queue that's almost entirely unused. It's like this great fantasy of highly organized groups coming together and fighting it out to see who could be the very best is nothing more than a fantasy of a small and vocal minority.

We didn't make this terribly difficult to mitigate. If you're stomping a hole in the pug group you're facing and really want those rewards, take your foot off the gas and pretend like you're preserving their will to live. You can still win handily without being a spawn camping cretin about it. No one wins if people stop playing because you couldn't help merely capitalizing on the disarray of your opposition. Fancy way of putting it and all.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: How scenario works - Feedback

Post#10 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:44 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:40 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:17 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:59 pm


Certainly everyone has been on the team that gets blown out 20-0 in kills and stands at their spawn waiting to die. Well now the timer goes down faster. If no one is having FUN, what are the rewards for? Good job buddy, you just griefed them so hard on their spawn they quit. Here's a full bucket of rewards.

Is that what we should encourage? Really?
You're 'encouraging' playing properly by giving full rewards to the side who wins. You didn't 'grief' anyone; you merely capitalised on the disarray of your opposition. It's their problem if they decide to queue for all SC, knowing that premades/strong 2/3-mans are queuing on the other realm, while taking no action (i.e bringing a healer, or a tank, forming a group themselves, pots, etc.) whatsoever.

Fun is irrelevant in this context: we all know that 90% of SC tend to be boring curbstomps (wasn't always the case when people were somewhat organised and the game wasn't as puggified), but that shouldn't mean that the people who are doing the beating should be penalised for exploiting their opponents' lack of organisational skills. As others have already mentioned, the grind is comparatively pretty intense as it is, which isn't a bad thing, per se, but it doesn't really need measures to make it even lengthier. 2c.

If people quit after being farmed, instead of going back to the drawing board, seeing what they did wrong, fixing the problem etc., then that is their prerogative. There are other games out there better suited to defeatist players who don't want to put in minimal effort in their gameplay.
I'm pretty sure we wasted a whole bunch of time setting up a 6v6 queue that's almost entirely unused. It's like this great fantasy of highly organized groups coming together and fighting it out to see who could be the very best is nothing more than a fantasy of a small and vocal minority.

We didn't make this terribly difficult to mitigate. If you're stomping a hole in the pug group you're facing and really want those rewards, take your foot off the gas and pretend like you're preserving their will to live. You can still win handily without being a spawn camping cretin about it. No one wins if people stop playing because you couldn't help merely capitalizing on the disarray of your opposition. Fancy way of putting it and all.
6v6 SC has nothing to do with outplaying your opponents in general SC, so I'm not sure what the relevance is in that comment, m9. You can still want to win your enemies in a non-competitive environment, and should still be encouraged for doing so, lel.

I prefer to look at it from a different angle: if you're getting your ass handed to you on a daily basis by the same premades, day in, day out, then take your foot off the slack pedal and start playing as if you give a damn.
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