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Standarize scenarios rewards

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Eathisword
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Posts: 804

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#21 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:26 pm

Korsario wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:01 pm
Spoiler:
Eathisword wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:28 pm
Korsario wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:05 pm
Hope you are feeling high and mighty in your ivory tower, I hope yous till find it elite and amazing once you are the only one there. Losing shouldnt be felt as a waste of time just rewarded apropietly, pugs shouldnt be punished they arleady have a bad time as it is. Winner would get double the rewards already why should they be upset about it? Losing is ok as long as people keep participating and having fun.
High and mighty Peterpan ! All hail !

Seriously, losing 500-0 with 0-1 kill happens. Leaving with 10k xp more isn't gonna make people ''have fun" as you say. Xp dont make the game fun. Renown either. A good fight does. Sometimes you get one, sometimes you don't.

Losing means : you failed. Generally, games don't reward you for failing. If you fail in a dungeon, you don'T get half the gear. If you lose at poker, you don'T get half the money. Same goes at PvP : when you lose you don'T get rewarded. Accept that or do something else in the game or in another game. See this as any other RPG games : when you die in a fight, in say Witcher, you do not progress your quest. You have to reload and retry. Same in a scenario. Requeue and retry.
Or just dont reqeue and scenarios grind to a halt like it ahs been happening, think of a solution instead of jsut acceptign the problem?
That only means people don't enjoy the game of scenario. They play bad or dont coordinate and dont want to improve to beat the game. Increasing the reward will not fix this. Scenario lovers would play them even if it gave nothing. Same with RR80+ full geared toon playing RvR : they do it cause they like it even if they get no rewards out of it. As with any other game really. You don'T play chess cause it gives xp, do ya ?

Your problem is you don'T like scenario, you don't want to be good at them. You just want a reward because you like THAT reward.

As for your solution point : I don'T see this as a problem. I prefer people not queuing, than people queuing only cause they get increase xp/renown whatever, while they aren't really interested in putting effort into winning. So imo, no need for a solution.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#22 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:38 pm

Korsario wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:03 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:11 pm
Ivory Tower? Nah - just don't think we should facilitate even further to bad and/or unorganised than has already been the case.
Yeah ivory tower, its clearly seen you havent been a new player in a logn time so you are completely out of touch with the situation.

Why facilitate it for the new player and having more people to play with a bad thing?
The LFG channel is open to new players, too, just as voice comms are, 'Invite' function is; it's a cop out.

You just want more rewards for losing, mate.
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Darks63
Posts: 487

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#23 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:03 pm

I dont think greater rewards is gonna wash the taste of too many stomps back to back out of people mouth. People will still quit queing when this happens irregardless.
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adamthelc
Posts: 695

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#24 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Darks63 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:03 pm
I dont think greater rewards is gonna wash the taste of too many stomps back to back out of people mouth. People will still quit queing when this happens irregardless.
I think if you made scenarios give decent rewards regardless of how you did more people would continue to queue, especially in mid tier scenarios.

I also think the quality of scenarios would be worse than they already are. Those people that were doing them mostly for the experience would give up even faster and just coast through a rough scenario knowing they had some reward waiting for them regardless of how well they did.

My guess is it would make leveling faster and scenarios worse.

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Luuca
Posts: 1218

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#25 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:04 am

I only need to lose another 1123 PuG SCs to get my weapon! SO close!!
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Collateral
Posts: 1494

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#26 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:08 am

There's a lot of very flawed views here. Op is correct, and constantly repeating 'group up' is getting really boring, and won't change anything. We are talking about time invested and reward gained. While you should definitely be playing for fun (like any other game), the time you invest should be worth it to keep you playing. I know exactly how op feels. Too many times this happened to me, and I also stopped qing after, because getting 1 emblem and 100 rp or less for 10 mins of actually trying is absolutely retarded and no game that holds to itself operates like that. People don't seem to realize that both sides actually lose in that case. One side gets no rewards (no matter if they try or not) and stops qing, meaning the other side also gets nothing.

And saying to such people to group up, well, what if none of my friends were online, or if they were doing their own thing (rvr, pve or whatever)? What if the balance was absolute ****? Why should I go to /5 and look for random strangers so I can have a normal experience in the game? That just seems like forcing people. Very few people play games like that anyway.

This problem of xp is even bigger in lower tiers. Just look at the astronomical difference in the example from op. And it's not like order did absolutely nothing. Healers healed, and I guess tanks did some tanking. Unfortunately we don't see how long it lasted, but whatever the time, winners got anywhere from 10-23 TIMES more xp? I can't but ask, are you for real? What game would expect to keep the players in such a case? No other game I ever played disincentivizes players more than that. 'You lost? Good for you here's the amount of xp you literally gain for killing a mob, but you wasted 10 minutes for it. Come again please.' Yeah no.

And don't get me wrong. I am all for grouping up. Played my fair share of organized wbs and everything in between. But like I said, sometimes your friends are offline, or you just have a bit of time to play so you can't waste it on making a group. Why should you be punished then? Because it is punishing to get such rewards after losing. Also I'm pretty sure the other side didn't have any groups either. So why was their NOT grouping up rewarded so much?

I agree with op that some minimal reward should be set, both for winners and losers. I don't think this would promote pugging even more (how much worse can it get anyway?), because people will not stop qing after one sc. This could even have potential for people to actually group up, cuz you will be playing with the same people and see who is good, so maybe you want to play only with them and maximise your chances. I don't think that's too far fetched.
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flintboth
Posts: 439

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#27 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:27 am

When you are a new player or if you just up a new roll the time needed to win a good weapon and gain good rr + xp by doing scenarios make scenario the worst way to gearing his char and have some fun because you are farmed all the way, because not geared.
Most of the time I see the Realm who have the most low level characters just lose the scenario and be farmed.
That disgusting all new comers to go this way.
Just need to give them some more cookies, I don't say "more" but "some more".
A little more medaillons and a little more RR because those new characters will never grow up if the scenario is on "hard mode", they have the feeling to be farmed in a little box.

Or just don't touch anything but you can make scenario for level characters 40 only and scenario for others level charcters below.

I know the forum is full of request and the staff is not full of devloppers with free time and RvR design prioritize but today the scenario look empty.
test monkey 076 (test failure)

Sulorie
Posts: 4361

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#28 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:08 am

At times you can spam /5 with group requests and get zero answers, so grouping up will solve most problems but is actually not as easy as it sounds. Very important is to make friends with other people, because this will be your player pool for future groups.
I play sessions, where actually nobody apart from some known 6mans, is looking for players in /5 channel. The core problem for me is, people are not social in a MMO.
Dying is no option.

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toffikx
Posts: 124

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#29 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:37 am

Collateral wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:08 am
There's a lot of very flawed views here. Op is correct, and constantly repeating 'group up' is getting really boring, and won't change anything. We are talking about time invested and reward gained. While you should definitely be playing for fun (like any other game), the time you invest should be worth it to keep you playing. I know exactly how op feels. Too many times this happened to me, and I also stopped qing after, because getting 1 emblem and 100 rp or less for 10 mins of actually trying is absolutely retarded and no game that holds to itself operates like that. People don't seem to realize that both sides actually lose in that case. One side gets no rewards (no matter if they try or not) and stops qing, meaning the other side also gets nothing.

And saying to such people to group up, well, what if none of my friends were online, or if they were doing their own thing (rvr, pve or whatever)? What if the balance was absolute ****? Why should I go to /5 and look for random strangers so I can have a normal experience in the game? That just seems like forcing people. Very few people play games like that anyway.

This problem of xp is even bigger in lower tiers. Just look at the astronomical difference in the example from op. And it's not like order did absolutely nothing. Healers healed, and I guess tanks did some tanking. Unfortunately we don't see how long it lasted, but whatever the time, winners got anywhere from 10-23 TIMES more xp? I can't but ask, are you for real? What game would expect to keep the players in such a case? No other game I ever played disincentivizes players more than that. 'You lost? Good for you here's the amount of xp you literally gain for killing a mob, but you wasted 10 minutes for it. Come again please.' Yeah no.

And don't get me wrong. I am all for grouping up. Played my fair share of organized wbs and everything in between. But like I said, sometimes your friends are offline, or you just have a bit of time to play so you can't waste it on making a group. Why should you be punished then? Because it is punishing to get such rewards after losing. Also I'm pretty sure the other side didn't have any groups either. So why was their NOT grouping up rewarded so much?

I agree with op that some minimal reward should be set, both for winners and losers. I don't think this would promote pugging even more (how much worse can it get anyway?), because people will not stop qing after one sc. This could even have potential for people to actually group up, cuz you will be playing with the same people and see who is good, so maybe you want to play only with them and maximise your chances. I don't think that's too far fetched.
3-4 emblems for the loosing side + additional emblems based on performance (points, kills etc.) ? 10-14 emblems for winning side? Vastly increased xp/renown for loosing side so it doesn’t feel like a total waste of time? While still promoting winning a scenario with superior rewards? That’s some ideas I had in my head. Emblem amount was meant for T4 and it could be different based on tier requirements.

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Collateral
Posts: 1494

Re: Standarize scenarios rewards

Post#30 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:40 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:08 am
At times you can spam /5 with group requests and get zero answers, so grouping up will solve most problems but is actually not as easy as it sounds. Very important is to make friends with other people, because this will be your player pool for future groups.
I play sessions, where actually nobody apart from some known 6mans, is looking for players in /5 channel. The core problem for me is, people are not social in a MMO.
We live in such a day and age. Games are more and more individualistic so people are used to playing alone mostly, that's just the reality.

But I think one of the problems here is, like I said, that people don't get the chance to socialise because many simply stop qing after they see it's simply worthless and a waste of time, which it really is. Again, if you played more with those people you would slowly start building relationships. You can't expect every person to be an extrovert that socialises with everyone the moment they see them. Do you do that in the real world? Most people don't, so you can't expect them to be like that in a game. Some people (like me) just need more time. And making it more worthwhile to play will greatly increase that time imo.
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