Its still an avoidance game.

[Alfa1986]

There are a few things you can do, while fighting the Zerg , that can be effective, instead of trying to out zerg the other side .

1. Scouts/spies , use WH, and WE to track enemy movements, and announce them in zone chat, to coordniate between WBs. for defense, or setting up flanks, ambushes.

2. actively have small groups, patrolling the path ways to their keep, ganking supply runners, and people trying to get back to the zerg. this alone will force the zerg away from its bo zerging to try and protect runners, or to pull small groups away from the zerg to protect its supply, or people getting ganked, highly effectively.

3. split up your zerg somewhat, and hit multiple objectives, this gives the opposing zerg two choices, to stay as 1 big blob moving from 1 bo to the next, while losing control of the other 3 bos, or splitting up into smaller more mobile groups, in an effort to regain control over the objectives, in order to rank up their keep. the main goal is to try and get their zerg to break up into a more mangeable force. if they dont, then starve them of supplies.

4. use terrain more effectively, to maneuver about the rvr lake unseen, using pve paths, bridges, etc, to come out behind, and ambush the other zerg, or to ninja bos, utilize choke points,etc. to give you an advantage, over sheer numbers, sadly while some do this, many do not, and just use main pahs etc.

absolutely agree with everything that you said, but these tactics may well be used by organized warbands, and the order consists of 50-80% of pugs.

[kirraha]

Its summer. Go outside and enjoy the weather and come back after summer. Or try other games. This is how it evolved and as long as the server members want to zerg, they gonna keep zerging.

Its a grind game and ppl gonna brainlessly grind it until they get bored or find something that suits them better.

[Likeaboss]

Spoiler:

Maybe most of you only know EU prime time and thats why youre answering how you are.
I am not too familiar with EU prime and how it plays out. It may be completely different when there is only 1/2 wbs per side.

There is hardly any fighting anymore. Sure keep defense, half the time its like we let a siege battle happen, because there is nothing else to do.

Then everyone just usually sits on walls and waits to get rolled inside. Or they barricade themself in and dont actually fight... Or run and sit on BOs that doesnt actually do anything.

There have become so many problems and issues its difficult to know where to start.
PvP doesnt exist anymore, in EU prime its a lot easier to constantly have battles everywhere.
But when you dont NEED to have that constant battle, its hard to find. And no one seeks it out... because they dont NEED to.

Im tired of hearing 'well players decide to play that way'. Players are also given the choice to play that way. There are even more ways to not interact with the enemy now in the game than there ever has been. You dont NEED to pvp.

Your complaints are mostly just throwaway whining about other players and I don't think turning RvR a simple deathmatch is the answer.

Any kind of deathmatch would be better at this point. And youre playing a PvP to not have deathmatches?

As said by Urdeg the problem isn't the game, but the players behavior.

It isnt 100% the players behavior. When a game allows such things to take place, then its the games core problem.
Maybe part of the problem is all the people agreeing to these changes, which are slowly destroying what the game is about.
Because hardly anyone says how this is not cool anymore, its just a bunch of 'oh this is great','this is awesome'.
No its not great, no its not awesome, its terrible.

It is called strategy, and tactics. If all you want is a mashup straight up fight, you have come to the wrong game. WAR always has been a game where the player brain actually counts more than the stats on your character, or the strength of your WB.

Ya strategy would be great. This has nothing to do with strategy, its based on avoiding and trying to evade the enemy.
The only time fights happen in the game is at a keep defense, if the opposition feels like showing up, or if its the only option.
Going to an empty zone in a pvp shouldnt even be an option. I guess all the WAR players arnt about pvp anymore, nothing about this system is about pvp anymore.

Its about trying to out flank your enemy by not interacting with them. Its about maneuvering the best way to go around them.

Im amazed more people dont agree. But I guess theyve left and this is what the fan base wants now.
There is no reason to fight anymore. Its all about, how can we get the farthest by doing the less amount of fighting.

Can pretty much agree with you... People dont care about the fights, about doing well and compare with others.
People want easy renown and fast rewards. If you would get renown for PvE, the RvR Zones would be dead

[Ysaran]

Maybe most of you only know EU prime time and thats why youre answering how you are.
I am not too familiar with EU prime and how it plays out. It may be completely different when there is only 1/2 wbs per side.

There is hardly any fighting anymore. Sure keep defense, half the time its like we let a siege battle happen, because there is nothing else to do.

Then everyone just usually sits on walls and waits to get rolled inside. Or they barricade themself in and dont actually fight... Or run and sit on BOs that doesnt actually do anything.

There have become so many problems and issues its difficult to know where to start.
PvP doesnt exist anymore, in EU prime its a lot easier to constantly have battles everywhere.
But when you dont NEED to have that constant battle, its hard to find. And no one seeks it out... because they dont NEED to.

Im tired of hearing 'well players decide to play that way'. Players are also given the choice to play that way. There are even more ways to not interact with the enemy now in the game than there ever has been. You dont NEED to pvp.

Your complaints are mostly just throwaway whining about other players and I don't think turning RvR a simple deathmatch is the answer.

Any kind of deathmatch would be better at this point. And youre playing a PvP to not have deathmatches?

As said by Urdeg the problem isn't the game, but the players behavior.

It isnt 100% the players behavior. When a game allows such things to take place, then its the games core problem.
Maybe part of the problem is all the people agreeing to these changes, which are slowly destroying what the game is about.
Because hardly anyone says how this is not cool anymore, its just a bunch of 'oh this is great','this is awesome'.
No its not great, no its not awesome, its terrible.

It is called strategy, and tactics. If all you want is a mashup straight up fight, you have come to the wrong game. WAR always has been a game where the player brain actually counts more than the stats on your character, or the strength of your WB.

Ya strategy would be great. This has nothing to do with strategy, its based on avoiding and trying to evade the enemy.
The only time fights happen in the game is at a keep defense, if the opposition feels like showing up, or if its the only option.
Going to an empty zone in a pvp shouldnt even be an option. I guess all the WAR players arnt about pvp anymore, nothing about this system is about pvp anymore.

Its about trying to out flank your enemy by not interacting with them. Its about maneuvering the best way to go around them.

Im amazed more people dont agree. But I guess theyve left and this is what the fan base wants now.
There is no reason to fight anymore. Its all about, how can we get the farthest by doing the less amount of fighting.

No, i don't play only in EU primetime. But even this was the case it doesn't matter. As you said ppl take the path of least resistance and if you want to change this you just have to open a wb and leads them smartly. If you start to kill all the soloers and the small groups they will form a wb and you will have your opposition.
Your deathmatch proposal will just further exasperate the zerg.

[jasonX]

All I know is that when serious Order guilds are not having an event Order usually crawls inside a keep or pick tankwall vs tankwall fight near their safe areas (keeps and warcamps). That is not a competitive gamestyle neither does any good to either side. Switching zones is the only way to draw Order out of the safety of their keep walls and their warcamps. if they dont follow then the zone drops.
Organize in proper guilds, work together, get proper fights.
It is as simple as that.
Your alternative is to build a BW or an Engi and wait at your keep walls or try to snipe noobs attacking your warcamp till the end of time.
We as WoM will not support meaningless fights like that.

[Likeaboss]

Spoiler:

All I know is that when serious Order guilds are not having an event Order usually crawls inside a keep or pick tankwall vs tankwall fight near their safe areas (keeps and warcamps). That is not a competitive gamestyle neither does any good to either side. Switching zones is the only way to draw Order out of the safety of their keep walls and their warcamps. if they dont follow then the zone drops.
Organize in proper guilds, work together, get proper fights.
It is as simple as that.
Your alternative is to build a BW or an Engi and wait at your keep walls or try to snipe noobs attacking your warcamp till the end of time.
We as WoM will not support meaningless fights like that.

Just a short Question... you want Order to group up, that you dont have to chace soloers with your Warband,
But as your signature sais, you are done play Order to much nerf.. but others should?

[redemaan]

JasonX makes out like he's some sort of guru but all he does is avoid real pvp and find ways to exploit the systems to get max rewards without actually fighting; then claims its some sort of elite "strategy". He is the vocal minority. The silent majority are appalled by it.

[Raggaz]

If BOs locked, if gaining resource only came from locking BOs, if only 1/2 BOs were open at a time. This would change the whole dynamic of the game. Can you imagine fighting over a BO for 30minutes? It just doesnt happen.
There are too many options to run around and not engage the enemy. There are too many places to go and wander around.

Everyone would know where to go with only 2 open BOs that needed to be captured to gain resource. Trying to create a system that solves the AAO problem isnt working its making things worse.
The side with more numbers is going to win anyway, all this is doing is dragging out the win. There is no overall focus, its so open ended. Too many zones, too many BOs, too many ways to play without playing.

Or..

If you dont like that idea, get rid of BOs, make resource only drop from killing players.
Approximately 5 deaths equal 1 resource box. Now we have to fight.. I wonder what that would be like.

Or..

Put a giant resource generator in the middle of each board. Everyone would be there, everyone would know where to go. Thats where the battle is.. thats where you get resource, thats how you repair, level up keeps.

How do not any of these work?

[DirkDaring]

There are a few things you can do, while fighting the Zerg , that can be effective, instead of trying to out zerg the other side .

1. Scouts/spies , use WH, and WE to track enemy movements, and announce them in zone chat, to coordniate between WBs. for defense, or setting up flanks, ambushes.

2. actively have small groups, patrolling the path ways to their keep, ganking supply runners, and people trying to get back to the zerg. this alone will force the zerg away from its bo zerging to try and protect runners, or to pull small groups away from the zerg to protect its supply, or people getting ganked, highly effectively.

3. split up your zerg somewhat, and hit multiple objectives, this gives the opposing zerg two choices, to stay as 1 big blob moving from 1 bo to the next, while losing control of the other 3 bos, or splitting up into smaller more mobile groups, in an effort to regain control over the objectives, in order to rank up their keep. the main goal is to try and get their zerg to break up into a more mangeable force. if they dont, then starve them of supplies.

4. use terrain more effectively, to maneuver about the rvr lake unseen, using pve paths, bridges, etc, to come out behind, and ambush the other zerg, or to ninja bos, utilize choke points,etc. to give you an advantage, over sheer numbers, sadly while some do this, many do not, and just use main pahs etc.

absolutely agree with everything that you said, but these tactics may well be used by organized warbands, and the order consists of 50-80% of pugs.

He who can control the pugs, controls an untapped source of power, but you have to direct them, to be somewhat effective, thats the hard part.

What we used to do, in order to be more effective, was wed form 1 Warband of all Alliance members if able ,all on voice coms, then wed have 2 other Alliance members also on voice coms with the main alliance Warband, but each of them would break off and form another new WB, but remain in contact with the main WB and coordniate movements, attacks, flanks etc with the main alliance wb

so now you efectivly have 3 WBs all on voice coms 1 main wb and 2 supporting wbs. if half the pugs listen to the leaders it works out pretty good .

we also used to run 2 skrimsh groups each operating seperate from each other and the main WB, each had between 4 to 8 max people , as they were fast hit and run groups, killing stragglers, supply runners, causing havoc with misdirection tactics, etc. always staying otm, hiding and avoiding large fights,

its easier in huge zones like DAOC frontiers, or Cyrodill etc, but can still; be effective here as well.

[Wiede]

The only time i see warbands avoind each other is by the sheer size difference of warbands e.g. 1 wb vs. blob of 5 wbs.

More so i often see people underestimating the size of the enemy blob and going in 40vs 130 xD