[Beginner's Question] All-sufficient and self-reliant?

[chokeanutsman]

Okay, so change the knockdown into a pull, it should somewhat be chainable but I doubt WL will need 2 CCs to kill a DPS Shaman anyways (and if the Shaman is "tanky" then that's not really DPS Shaman, that's kind of a healer shaman aka stalemate Shaman with no real kill potential but you won't kill it either so apparently that's "good 1v1 build"). Sorry you fail to beat DPS Shamans on a WL.

P.S I also apologize for stating facts where I say WL has a better pet than SH and that AM can cleanse Shaman Dots but Shaman can't cleanse back. I'm sorry for hurting you and Hargrim's fragile feelings and just wanting an "honest discussion" by stating obvious things that make Order superior in 1v1s.

You want AM cleansing your dots. That means the WP gcleanse spam isnt getting them.

Shaman has one of the best assist dps debuffs in the game with its tough debuff. Thats what puts its burst higher and assists better. You can also double EWG to get your best burst.

But we are talking about 1v1s, the op is asking for an easier 1v1 life where he can burst and get faster solo roaming renown than a deftard build (which wont really hard farm rr because people are most of the time going to escape assuming that they know what deftard builds do). I agree with you that EWG is nice in 6s (even tho it isnt better than dps dok in 6v6). But that EWG doesnt really help much in a 1v1 since AM still has a better heal debuff and can trade hits better because of that 3600 m1 shield. EWG isnt really helpful either where you are forced to watch points or be separated from the team on a bad designed sc like thunder valley. I can understand where you are coming from if mourkain and college was perma rotation, but it isnt.

[Hargrim]

Keep on moving the goal posts, you must be fun at parties.

[chokeanutsman]

DPS Shaman does more damage, but DPS AM trades hits better lmao, whats the point of more damage when people just stop walking for 2 seconds on Gork Sez Stop ...


The only time where "your team mates can make up for what you are lacking" is through ACTUAL well designed scenarios such as Mourkain Temple or College of Corruption like maps, something that the development team is having trouble putting on "perma rotation" because they appparently have "no control" over the scenarios.

From where did you pull Gork Sez Stop? This is not the reason, why Shaman is better at dealing damage.

Both sc maps you mention here are actually some of the worst ones, especially for rdps.

I have the impression, that you have not a single clue, what you are talking.

Uhh.. because m1s are relevant in 1v1s? At least youre trying to keep your cool. But are you implying m1s dont matter in a 1v1? Am gets a real shield, shaman gets divine favor or gork sez stop. Toughness debuff, sure you still get a better heal debuff tho. Either way the thread is about 1v1s, and bad designed scs and solo roaming are relevant. All am i saying is if the op wants easy 1v1s, play order. We can talk about “order is better in 1v1s because destro can do this in team fights” in a different thread. You saying “making up for what you lack with comps” is irrelevant to what the op wants, and im hoping we are having an understanding.

[chokeanutsman]

Keep on moving the goal posts, you must be fun at parties.

Sure.

[Telen]

But we are talking about 1v1s, the op is asking for an easier 1v1 life where he can burst and get faster solo roaming renown than a deftard build (which wont really hard farm rr because people are most of the time going to escape assuming that they know what deftard builds do). I agree with you that EWG is nice in 6s (even tho it isnt better than dps dok in 6v6). But that EWG doesnt really help much in a 1v1 since AM still has a better heal debuff and can trade hits better because of that 3600 m1 shield. EWG isnt really helpful either where you are forced to watch points or be separated from the team on a bad designed sc like thunder valley. I can understand where you are coming from if mourkain and college was perma rotation, but it isnt.

Good job its a group based game then.

[chokeanutsman]

But we are talking about 1v1s, the op is asking for an easier 1v1 life where he can burst and get faster solo roaming renown than a deftard build (which wont really hard farm rr because people are most of the time going to escape assuming that they know what deftard builds do). I agree with you that EWG is nice in 6s (even tho it isnt better than dps dok in 6v6). But that EWG doesnt really help much in a 1v1 since AM still has a better heal debuff and can trade hits better because of that 3600 m1 shield. EWG isnt really helpful either where you are forced to watch points or be separated from the team on a bad designed sc like thunder valley. I can understand where you are coming from if mourkain and college was perma rotation, but it isnt.

Good job its a group based game then.

Thank god it is balanced around groups, until you play fail designed sc maps such as thunder valley and reikland factory (which devs cant take off rotation because “they didnt make scs”). Or until you get bored enough to solo roam cause team is asleep or working. Or you know... youre a solo player like the op.

[Sulorie]

But we are talking about 1v1s, the op is asking for an easier 1v1 life where he can burst and get faster solo roaming renown than a deftard build (which wont really hard farm rr because people are most of the time going to escape assuming that they know what deftard builds do). I agree with you that EWG is nice in 6s (even tho it isnt better than dps dok in 6v6). But that EWG doesnt really help much in a 1v1 since AM still has a better heal debuff and can trade hits better because of that 3600 m1 shield. EWG isnt really helpful either where you are forced to watch points or be separated from the team on a bad designed sc like thunder valley. I can understand where you are coming from if mourkain and college was perma rotation, but it isnt.

Good job its a group based game then.

Thank god it is balanced around groups, until you play fail designed sc maps such as thunder valley and reikland factory (which devs cant take off rotation because “they didnt make scs”). Or until you get bored enough to solo roam cause team is asleep or working. Or you know... youre a solo player like the op.

You are not supposed to sit on flags for the duration of the sc. You move around and kill targets - not solo - no matter what dps you play. A dps AM can defend or take a flag from shaman? Nobody cares. The shaman can take flags on other side of map and actually score points with kills, when this AM is busy sitting on flags.
Some sc reward objective play too much, therefore you can win by solely taking flags and avoiding the enemy. This is bad map layout or mechanic and yes, Thunder Valley is one of them.
In the greater scheme, this is still no class balance issue.

[Telen]

No class is balanced for solo. Ranged classes are obviously going to have an advantage. Self healing classes also. More mobile classes. If you took away what makes them stronger solo you would make them weaker in other parts of the game. The only way to balance it would be to dumb down the design and have less varied classes.

[methority]

I'm going to make a deep analysis between AM and Shaman skills, then preferably roll AM. I express my gratitude to all of you who had a point in discussion.

[BeautfulToad]

General all rounders have to be four of six healing classes. WP, DoK, AM, Shammie. Proper SnB Tanks have ridiculous survivability if you dont care about killing stuff.

For solo killing in ORVR, has to be Witch Elf/Witch Hunter as kings of the gank due to invisibility rivalled only by White Lion with pounce.

Know what people are saying about Shammie/Archmage in ORVR. They are decent soloers in ORVR. The rely a lot on gear disparites. Holding all things equal, cant see how they can survive a WE/WH gank or WL pounce unless stacking defensive gear, in which case it seems a lot of stat balancing for the type of solo roam build i envisage.