guard +crossguarding

[hogun]

Spoiler:

ok, no attacking each other, especially in a patch note thread where discussions should be about the patch and nothing else.

It doesn't matter Luth and Bloodi must be very young and pretty damn upset with me for reasons they don't want to reveal...

Avoid mentioning other community members to taunt them or it will have logical consequences.

let's continue without considering it, take this as an additional test, which is quite surprising.

I have to understand better to draw conclusions from it but which are not obvious I think... I remind you that the BF s&b has a tactik 15% less damage.

https://youtu.be/1BV6j6Wcn88

[Nekkma]

Why don't you just switch to 2h if you think parry with a 2h is so amazing that nothing else matters?

[hogun]

Why don't you just switch to 2h if you think parry with a 2h is so amazing that nothing else matters?

because I've always played for fun, but they're just ask questions. and everyone can draw these conclusions for their own game. we can speak whether it's logical or not. since it's an Alpha. the fact of having a different opinion is always better for the development, I choose not instead of dev, and fortunately because you would have to play role play...I only discuss examples that pause me question. and it's true I'm against the unique thought that here is often represented by the 6vs6 addicts

for this test, I remind you that these are physical attacks and not magic, and that the equipment of the &nb is superior to that of the 2H, there is an RR expense of 40 pt.

s&b 20pt block + 20pt parry
2H 20pt parry + 20 pt WS

Annihilation attention gives a regen life, and not ruin, I think that feels this regen life the two lives would be the same while s&b has 15% reduction in damage almost permanent.

so test can be better

[zageen]

You don't really understand right? Parry is efficient against melee and guard damage, it the ONLY "true defense" we can stack to mitigate dmg of the guard. So basically it's normal to stack it .

To Give you some values, true defensive stats are like exponential with effective HP against melee / guard dmg :

at 25% parry , you have 133% EHP ;
at 50% parry , you have 200% EHP ;
at 75% parry , you have 300% EHP ;

It's basically the same with Block damage , but against ALL source of dmgs.

Imagine you have like 25 % block and 45 % parry:

Potential EHP provided by block : 133%
Potential EHP provided by parry : around 180 % (not a mathematical expert , some ppl will provide more accurate value if they want to)

If you merge the 2 value to get a real EHP against guard dmg you have around 240% EHP (same warning as previous)

So basically yeah 300> 240% EHP , BUT it's only against melee/ guard dmg.

A 2 h with parry stacking will be more efficient to guard and tabk dmg against a melee train.



But the world is not like that and there are thing called BW/SW/AM/ENGIES.

If we take the value of EHP against disrupt/dodge of a 2H tank:

around 20% dodge disrupt: EHP around 125%

Shield tank:

20 % dodge/disrupt : 125% EHP
w/ hold the line : 50% : 200% EHP
25% block : 133% EHP

total EHP: around 166 % EHP
w/ Hold the line: 266% EHP

166% >> 125%
266% >>>>>> 125% do you agree?

So , WE 2 H tank , are specialized to tank guard and melee train DMGS but we melt against a BW or AM to be fair;
We are bad to tank against bomb/pug range wb.

You have your specialization , we have our , stop crying about our domain and specialization . Git gud as we say.

Now i agree on 1 point : stack parry is broken ATM if stacked at more than 250% of EHP with the guard. but necessary to be competitive in SC/6v6/open guard bot.

If there is 2 way to nerf the effectivness of tankiness dmg:

1: CAP parry mitigation to like 60-70%
This will nerf tank in : tanking guard dmg AND melee train ( so 6v6 is affected , bad idea)
2: make guard mitigation based on the source of the spell (not only parry , but BW guard dmg can be disrupted)
this will nerf 2H tank in open , as they will melt faster ,but maybe open the 6v6 area to range due to increase effectiveness

[hogun]

here is an example of guard damage: this is the most important position, we're talking about on the ability to make VERY significant damage disappear




so we can deduce that I absorbed about : 27800 hp / 73000 hp

with 38.20 block ( we see the log its like getstat for block)

if I have a high parade rate as seen on the last discussion as 77%.I'm going to absorb 56000 hp /73000

ps : i dont speak about domage direct only guard domage

[Sulorie]

Nobody wants to read a chart with french skill names. Either do it in english or drop it.

[hogun]

You don't really understand right? Parry is efficient against melee and guard damage, it the ONLY "true defense" we can stack to mitigate dmg of the guard. So basically it's normal to stack it .


You have your specialization , we have our , stop crying about our domain and specialization . Git gud as we say.

I agree with a part of what you're saying, but please, not that.

I play s&b and 2H, but I prefer s&b because I find its most beautiful:( no question of optimisation for me)

I've never been to nerve the 2H tank, I say be careful, guys who play in 6vs6 there are not only arrogant, there's a definite search for optimization. but if this optimization always comes to the same result, either the 2H is maybe because there's something to understand.

and the more tests I do, the more I find that the parry ( for all )could be changed because of its overpower in the face of the blockage on the guard.

nothing more

[Nekkma]

What about the tanks that prefer the aestetics of a 2h? Can we nerf the effectiveness of block and htl so that they also can play in a wb while beeing pretty?

[rmpl]

agree with a part of what you're saying, but please, not that.

I play s&b and 2H, but I prefer s&b because I find its most beautiful:( no question of optimisation for me)

I've never been to nerve the 2H tank, I say be careful, guys who play in 6vs6 there are not only arrogant, there's a definite search for optimization. but if this optimization always comes to the same result, either the 2H is maybe because there's something to understand.

and the more tests I do, the more I find that the parry ( for all )could be changed because of its overpower in the face of the blockage on the guard.

nothing more

Everyone is tired of you already because you think of parry and block in a vacuum but you simply cannot do that, you have to consider other things such as block being able to block anything. Guard damage is not the only thing that a tank has to worry about.

[blechkautz]

First the 2h IB used full Anni as it seems and got the HP regen from the Chest. THats 60HP/4s = 15HP/s.
As your second test lasted about 90s you can see that he healed for 90*15 = 1350 Points. You took overall around 900 dmg and the Bar of the 2h wasn't even full. So he probally got more Dmg but healed most of it. Either remove the HP/s for the 2h or get it yourself (with full Genesis instead of 4pc + naked Bl cloak for no reason).
Second Why don't you give the parry rate of the 2h IB? And the amount of strength the Choppa had. According to the Armory he's only lvl 23 in shitty gear, which means he's nowhere near the strength cap (around 800 i'd guess with Brute force, 600 without). That makes WS way more effective as a bonus to Parry. Speaking about WS the 2h Ib used his WS buff on CD so he got like 100-120 more WS than yo for using his stuff + the points form r (72) he might have doubled your WS if he had the 3p Beastlord bonus. Please offer the full infos, like Choppa's strength, your WS, parry, block, the 2h WS and his parryrate, so it's actually transparent. Also either both use Watch'n learn or none.
So time for a new test with real conditions I'd say, since this one is completele ruined by the hp regen.

For your graphic: It shows once again, that you completely ignore Parry which is really bad for avoiding guard dmg. Also it seems like your not using your parry buff all the time or your chance of parrying guard should be way higher then 4%. So use your buff, get some rr points in parry and you'll avoid way more than 40% of your guard dmg.