test guard

[Telen]

I agree with Luth here, just because you happen to have more parry then block does not in any way or form diminish the value of block since the rolls are separate and one does not change the other and further the second roll (block) can protect against so much more as well.

You can agree with luth or you can agree with math.

[Telen]

Doesn't block happen first then other avoidance being checked? If thats the case for guard aswell since tanks(except BO's) generally have it easier to stack parry vallue higher you get less vallue point for point in reference since it's better to have the higher avoidance check happen first. Parry is also unconditional of arnament. To me it feels pretty logical from a game ballance perspective to swap so highest avoidance always check first.

It doesnt matter which is first because the second is multiplied by the remainder. So it has the same final result.

[Tesq]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associative_property

Sure you could say block makes parry have less weight in the calculations. Another reason for avoidance to be additive so they get the same efficiency from parry.

man as i wrote to hogun , it dosent matter

you can have a s+b tank and a 2h tank spec both 18% parry and zero block from renown, ok? then the s+b will still have the s+b block rate

aka 20 rp to both-> end result:

2h-->18% parry and 0 block (loose block rate but gain 20 dps more from 2h)
s+b-->18% parry and 5% block (loose 20 dps more from 2h but gain block rate)

NB:This is the vanilla balance pre masterys spec

It's impossible that with same build s+b is worst than 2h in avoidance IF BOTH SPEC THE SAME WAY s+b is better, if s+b do not spec the same way is for others build reason. The s+b have 2 try to avoid the hit the 2h just one, it dosen't matter how low it is they are still 2 try.

also you wont achive anything buff s+b avoidance by make it additive reagarding 2h. You gona buff something to extreme level like 80%-100% avoidance vs anything while leave 2h the same.

[Penril]

Parry alone can be a higher avoidance than parry + block of a higher amount. That’s the point of the tests. Which we know from the math.

Your math sucks. Go back to school. It is statistically impossible for the probability of X to be higher than the probability of (X or Y). Even if Y was zero, then both probabilities would be equal.

In other words, P(x U y) >= P(x).

The big mistake i see (intentional or not) here is that they are using a higher value for x for P(x) than they are for P(x U y). Or, like some pointed out already, comparing a high parry value for 2H vs a low parry value in SnB.

[roadkillrobin]

Doesn't block happen first then other avoidance being checked? If thats the case for guard aswell since tanks(except BO's) generally have it easier to stack parry vallue higher you get less vallue point for point in reference since it's better to have the higher avoidance check happen first. Parry is also unconditional of arnament. To me it feels pretty logical from a game ballance perspective to swap so highest avoidance always check first.

It doesnt matter which is first because the second is multiplied by the remainder. So it has the same final result.

Just if you count chance of individual attacks right?
If hit by 100 attacks and parry be 50 and block 25, block lets 75 pass and 50% of those, 37,5 , are picked up by parry? Math isn't really my cup tho, especially not the terminology.

[Telen]

Your math sucks. Go back to school. It is statistically impossible for the probability of X to be higher than the probability of (X or Y). Even if Y was zero, then both probabilities would be equal.

In other words, P(x U y) >= P(x).

The big mistake i see (intentional or not) here is that they are using a higher value for x for P(x) than they are for P(x U y). Or, like some pointed out already, comparing a high parry value for 2H vs a low parry value in SnB.

30% block + 30% parry = 51% overall avoidance. So 51%+ parry alone would be better.

[Penril]

Your math sucks. Go back to school. It is statistically impossible for the probability of X to be higher than the probability of (X or Y). Even if Y was zero, then both probabilities would be equal.

In other words, P(x U y) >= P(x).

The big mistake i see (intentional or not) here is that they are using a higher value for x for P(x) than they are for P(x U y). Or, like some pointed out already, comparing a high parry value for 2H vs a low parry value in SnB.

30% block + 30% parry = 51% overall avoidance. So 51%+ parry alone would be better.

Why the hell are you comparing 51% parry to 30% parry and 30% block? That is precisely what i am talking about: you compare it to 51% parry and 30% block. Or do you magically lose 20% parry when going from 2H to SnB?

Geez...

[Telen]

man as i wrote to hogun , it dosent matter

you can have a s+b tank and a 2h tank spec both 18% parry and zero block from renown, ok? then the s+b will still have the s+b block rate

aka 20 rp to both-> end result:

2h-->18% parry and 0 block (loose block rate but gain 20 dps more from 2h)
s+b-->18% parry and 5% block (loose 20 dps more from 2h but gain block rate)

NB:This is the vanilla balance pre masterys spec

It's impossible that with same build s+b is worst than 2h in avoidance IF BOTH SPEC THE SAME WAY s+b is better, if s+b do not spec the same way is for others build reason. The s+b have 2 try to avoid the hit the 2h just one, it dosen't matter how low it is they are still 2 try.

also you wont achive anything buff s+b avoidance by make it additive reagarding 2h. You gona buff something to extreme level like 80%-100% avoidance vs anything while leave 2h the same.

60% parry = 60% overall
50% parry + 10% block = 55% overall
30% parry + 30% block = 51% overall

This is for guard damage. Though even for all damage 2h still get the benefit because they can spec d/d which is another nonmultpliclative check if far cheaper and works 360.

[Penril]

Though even for all damage 2h still get the benefit because they can spec d/d which is another nonmultpliclative check if far cheaper and works 360.

I'm sorry... SnB can't stack d/d?

What we have in this thread are people that stack d/d and high parry values on a 2H and then compare it to a SnB that doesn't stack these things, just to point out that 2H is way better than SnB for negating/mitigating damage.

This thread should be locked and those people banned from discussing these things tbh.

[Telen]

Why the hell are you comparing 51% parry to 30% parry and 30% block? That is precisely what i am talking about: you compare it to 51% parry and 30% block. Or do you magically lose 20% parry when going from 2H to SnB?

Geez...

66% overall. You get 15% extra avoidance for the renown and losing 2h.