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Telen
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Re: test guard

Post#91 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:07 pm

Penril wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:02 pm
I'm sorry... SnB can't stack d/d?

What we have in this thread are people that stack d/d and high parry values on a 2H and then compare it to a SnB that doesn't stack these things, just to point out that 2H is way better than SnB for negating/mitigating damage.

This thread should be locked and those people banned from discussing these things tbh.
As 2h wont be stacking block. You might I dont know. They can put points elsewhere. D/D for example. Even if the snb stacks that too then 2h still have 20 renown points.
I dont believe losing 2h renown points for 15% extra guard avoidance is worth it in smallscale and why you wont get snb there. Thats why the guard change happened.
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Grock
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Re: test guard

Post#92 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:11 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:57 pm
60% parry = 60% overall
50% parry + 10% block = 55% overall
30% parry + 30% block = 51% overall

This is for guard damage. Though even for all damage 2h still get the benefit because they can spec d/d which is another nonmultpliclative check if far cheaper and works 360.
Congratulations, you discovered how math works.

1 - (x+y) < (1-x) * (1-y)
Last edited by Grock on Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Penril
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Re: test guard

Post#93 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:12 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:07 pm

As 2h wont be stacking block. You might I dont know. They can put points elsewhere. D/D for example. Even if the snb stacks that too then 2h still have 20 renown points.
...and? The SnB has the potential to be way better at mitigating (edit just in case: blocking/parrying the frontal melee attack) guard damage than a 2H. Even if the 2H has 20 spare renown points left. If you think that's fair or not, that's for a different discussion.

SnB>>>>2H for mitigating/negating damage. Period. No matter how you want to spin it, in the end math and statistics disagree with you Telen.

* The only exception might be a SM spamming WoDS, and i believe BG got an equivalent to that skill as well in the last year? With a skill like that, of course 2H > SnB.
Last edited by Penril on Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Telen
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Re: test guard

Post#94 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:13 pm

You dont mitigate guard damage. fml. Im out.
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Penril
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Re: test guard

Post#95 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:15 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:13 pm
You dont mitigate guard damage. fml. Im out.

I said mitigate/negate. Negate the guard damage, mitigate any other direct damage on you. SnB > 2H for those. Learn to read. Also, it is pretty obvious that "mitigate guard damage" in this context means blocking/parrying the melee attack. But if it bothers you, so be it.

In any case, glad you are finally out. Your misinformation was dangerous to this thread, some people might actually believe you.

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Martok
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Re: test guard

Post#96 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:21 pm

hogun wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:21 am
let's go beyond the fact that I'm the worst player in the galaxy and I don't understand anything about the mechanics of the game and let's look at this test together.

Well this lasted all the way until post number two.

Still, I appreciate the effort. I ran some test on S&B myself and am considering putting together a video on the results. The short version is the whole experience was boring as ****.

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altharion1
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Re: test guard

Post#97 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:59 pm

Fortunately for us, the game is far more complex than breaking it down to parry = good, block + parry = bad.

When making decisions on your spec, survivability, abilities, weapon options, gear options etc first you consider what you are trying to achieve and select the options based on what is most effective for the specific situations and conditions you are most likely to encounter.

In some situations having 90% parry and no shield is great, in others it is a disaster. OP seems to infer that he believes block+parry should be better than overstacking parry in all situations.
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bloodi
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Re: test guard

Post#98 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:33 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:13 pm
You dont mitigate guard damage. fml. Im out.
So after showing you dont understand math at all, you are trying to stick to semantics?

Jesus **** christ, you are dangerously stupid.

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Penril
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Re: test guard

Post#99 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:39 pm

My bad; I should have known that would happen. No one likes being proven wrong at such a level, so he had to grasp at whatever he could. In this case, it was me saying "mitigate guard damage". Even though 99% of people reading this thread know that i meant blocking/parrying it. Semantics aside, my point still stands, and i dare everyone to prove me wrong.

P(x U y) >= P(x)

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Tesq
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Re: test guard

Post#100 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:43 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:57 pm
Tesq wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm
man as i wrote to hogun , it dosent matter

you can have a s+b tank and a 2h tank spec both 18% parry and zero block from renown, ok? then the s+b will still have the s+b block rate

aka 20 rp to both-> end result:

2h-->18% parry and 0 block (loose block rate but gain 20 dps more from 2h)
s+b-->18% parry and 5% block (loose 20 dps more from 2h but gain block rate)

NB:This is the vanilla balance pre masterys spec

It's impossible that with same build s+b is worst than 2h in avoidance IF BOTH SPEC THE SAME WAY s+b is better, if s+b do not spec the same way is for others build reason. The s+b have 2 try to avoid the hit the 2h just one, it dosen't matter how low it is they are still 2 try.

also you wont achive anything buff s+b avoidance by make it additive reagarding 2h. You gona buff something to extreme level like 80%-100% avoidance vs anything while leave 2h the same.
60% parry = 60% overall
50% parry + 10% block = 55% overall
30% parry + 30% block = 51% overall

This is for guard damage. Though even for all damage 2h still get the benefit because they can spec d/d which is another nonmultpliclative check if far cheaper and works 360.

no no, again same parry on both and same renown spended

s+b--->18% parry and 5% block + 0 wpds (shield block rate)
2h---->18% parry and 0% block + 20 wdps (2h = no shield block rate)

what you are citing up there are differences build up based on "personal spec choices" anyone can do and of course lead to parry performing better than block+parry while also give to block another benefith out of guard mitigation on block vs attack made vs the tank instad vs guard attacks(trade out). That is not the correct point of view. The correct one is max stacking potential avaiable with out realtive renown point restriction or same spec on both on parry.

-All classes can have the same parry % while 2h or s+b or have higher parry in s+b(like chosen) or have a diff of 5% for 2h, if they dont it's spec choices or lack of optimization and again this is also happening at masteries balance not at 2h vs s+b pick level aka fi there is any balance problem between parry and block it's in masterys at max
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