Bolstering looks stupid now
Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
Tldr version: OP tried to solo a lowbie, lost, and now wants bolster nerfed so sub 40s are free kills.
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Former Pragg/Badlands Destro Iron Rock/Badlands Order player.
Former Pragg/Badlands Destro Iron Rock/Badlands Order player.
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Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
be careful of what? you can twist my words to suit your agenda its okay, easy to do in written formatNidwin wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:51 pm Wam,
I've no "problem" with you but your experiences and opinions are subjective and may not reflect reality. I see your points and I'm sure you don't have any bad or ill intentions but this doesn't mean that I'm going to agree with you.
You are making very specific claims without backing them up with anything except having to take your word for it. And it works, I'm sure, but not with me.
Your words, not mine.
1. TUP going to play order for reason x,y,z
2. BW bomb is the way to go on order, nothing else up to 8 BW wb's (your own guide for order)
3. Yes, I know how to counter it but not going to say how. (Your words)
4. TUP mains destro and we hope to play destro full time again very soonish.
And as I wrote above, no bad or ill intentions on your side, but be a bit more careful in the future. Just a little advice.
1) yes because order guilds was on verge of breaking at the time I mean bitterstones alone had lost over 50% population mate just because you are not aware of some information that I am privy too, order population was down in the dumps, destro had all the momentum... now with new gear, a dbl xp event, helping out order a little bit, order have some numbers again... when you want to raid for 3-4 hours, and its over after 1/1.5 hour because you dominate and enemy gives up that is no good bro so yeah we have our reasons make of them what you will.
2) We use 6 ideally (doesnt have to be 8???), anymore is a bonus, guide suggest 5-8 (4 at bare minimum... its not too disimilar to what i would recommend on destro just there is slightly more room for more variety on destro atleast) I even say some other dps classes have a role do not take me wrong way. I only said WL/SW have lesser role in large scale in comparison which is true, they are better at Small scale, just different flavours for different situations.
3) I have given alot of answers on how to counter different things already, when I don't have to give any answers what so ever... I cannot do all the work and provide it on a plate on how i would counter us on both sides, its pretty straight forward things not rocket science... we are not immortal and never claim to be, we bleed and die just like anyone else, I would argue the main difference is i would probably take us back to a fight faster that's it.
4) Bro we play around others, we react to the community, we prefer our mains/originals, we have always said this... you have no idea what happens behind the scenes and how much goes into it... I track down other guilds and pass along information and inform them of our intent so people on both sides have a rough idea... we are scouting zones a hour inadvance, we know when large guilds will be out, we zonepop often... tell me who else does such things and swap sides to try get some balance... on sunday we went order(I even popped a renown potion on marauder ready to play destro that evening but NRM & PNP on same side), on monday we went destro...
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This game as different strokes for different folks, others game might start at lvl 1... and they get to lvl 16 and start again over and over if they enjoy that kinda thing thats cool to each their own... but the real core of the game to me and my guild starts 40+ I haven't seen a argument that can persuade me to think differently. Lets me see 12 hours vs thousands of hours
Wamizzle Guild Leader [TUP]
Wamizzle Guild Leader [The Unlikely Plan]
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- anarchypark
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Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
[quote=mikke post_id=336619 time=1544525239 user_id=52708]
[quote=WExWH post_id=336613 time=1544521869 user_id=231199]
player who knows how the bolster work will be powerful but for people who don't know how the bolster work like new player they will feel useless. nothing new
[/quote]
This. And killing such player should be rewarded well.
[/quote]
you saved yourself from being killed by low lvl. that's your reward.
bolster is aid for low lvls, not a method to farm low lvls.
40rr killed 20rr, he gets 20rp,
whether 20rr is skilled or not.
how do you put player skill into reward formula anyway?
[quote=WExWH post_id=336613 time=1544521869 user_id=231199]
player who knows how the bolster work will be powerful but for people who don't know how the bolster work like new player they will feel useless. nothing new
[/quote]
This. And killing such player should be rewarded well.
[/quote]
you saved yourself from being killed by low lvl. that's your reward.
bolster is aid for low lvls, not a method to farm low lvls.
40rr killed 20rr, he gets 20rp,
whether 20rr is skilled or not.
how do you put player skill into reward formula anyway?
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- wargrimnir
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Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
This doesn't seem like a productive thread...
Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
The only valid whine in ops post is the low renown gained for killing bolstered players. I posted a potential solution to this in an earlier thread on the same topic.
In short, a good solution would be to use the sum of the bolstered stats to define the amount of renown gained for killing them.
Then the newbie who dosent use the bolster mechanic to its potential (the "free kill") would give low renown while the experienced players using the bolster mechanic to its potential would give renown as per the difficuly of killing him as a result.
This way you extract "player skill" from the equation.
Win - win.
In short, a good solution would be to use the sum of the bolstered stats to define the amount of renown gained for killing them.
Then the newbie who dosent use the bolster mechanic to its potential (the "free kill") would give low renown while the experienced players using the bolster mechanic to its potential would give renown as per the difficuly of killing him as a result.
This way you extract "player skill" from the equation.
Win - win.
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- wargrimnir
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Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
This might be fair, but I would strongly err on the side of all low level players not being "worth it" in the eyes of players already at R40. The current setup is a double deterrent, all low level players are worth a small amount, and occasionally you pick on the wrong lowbie who stomps you by using bolster to is limits. If that makes R40's change their mind a bit on who to target, that means less lowbies are getting destroyed while engaging in RvR, and are more likely to stick around until end game.Ugle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:04 pm The only valid whine in ops post is the low renown gained for killing bolstered players. I posted a potential solution to this in an earlier thread on the same topic.
In short, a good solution would be to use the sum of the bolstered stats to define the amount of renown gained for killing them.
Then the newbie who dosent use the bolster mechanic to its potential (the "free kill") would give low renown while the experienced players using the bolster mechanic to its potential would give renown as per the difficuly of killing him as a result.
This way you extract "player skill" from the equation.
Win - win.
Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
seems fair... can't have it both wayswargrimnir wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:15 pmThis might be fair, but I would strongly err on the side of all low level players not being "worth it" in the eyes of players already at R40. The current setup is a double deterrent, all low level players are worth a small amount, and occasionally you pick on the wrong lowbie who stomps you by using bolster to is limits. If that makes R40's change their mind a bit on who to target, that means less lowbies are getting destroyed while engaging in RvR, and are more likely to stick around until end game.Ugle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:04 pm The only valid whine in ops post is the low renown gained for killing bolstered players. I posted a potential solution to this in an earlier thread on the same topic.
In short, a good solution would be to use the sum of the bolstered stats to define the amount of renown gained for killing them.
Then the newbie who dosent use the bolster mechanic to its potential (the "free kill") would give low renown while the experienced players using the bolster mechanic to its potential would give renown as per the difficuly of killing him as a result.
This way you extract "player skill" from the equation.
Win - win.
lowbies need a incentive and encouragement to partake... remember they won't get as worthwhile loot from zone locks compared to higher levels, so renown is their reward for participating while not max level, they kinda have nothing to lose by playing aggressive ... (or they would be in dead t2/t3 for most the time under old system)
Higher levels get something to fight and minor reward instead of nothing as those players wouldn't be around under old system... so something is better than nothing. I think its Karma if you gank lowbies and then one turns around and kills you sounds a bit like sour grapes to complain about lowbies killing you in one off's... now if lowbie's in a premade was getting consistantly top kills in a zone and outkilling 6 man's like LOB and others then you could say bolster might need a tweak... but they don't so they are not OP.
On a warband level im not going to discriminate targets based on levels either... as a lvl 16 healer can rez, and they also add too mass.
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Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
Lost my initial reply due to ddos check on website so a shorter reply will have to do.
Its a double deterrent indeed, as there is no incentive for higher renown players to engage bolstered players, which in turn deterioate everybodies rvr experience by evading fights etc.
@wam: Comparing a half functioning system to a previous version of the game (pre t2-4 merge) in order to justify not making the current system better makes little sense.
Its a double deterrent indeed, as there is no incentive for higher renown players to engage bolstered players, which in turn deterioate everybodies rvr experience by evading fights etc.
@wam: Comparing a half functioning system to a previous version of the game (pre t2-4 merge) in order to justify not making the current system better makes little sense.
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Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
Okay but how much do you think lowbies should be worth? what medals do you think they should drop? I just said current system is better than older system so that is progress or people want daily chaos wastes 5 days in a row or KV 5 days in a row or 50 vs 50 in primetime eu how do you think it can be even better? My point of view is I think more from population view more than renown specific per a kill point of view. What base values per a minimum kill? and what maximum values? and how often / diminishing returns?Ugle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:46 pm Lost my initial reply due to ddos check on website so a shorter reply will have to do.
Its a double deterrent indeed, as there is no incentive for higher renown players to engage bolstered players, which in turn deterioate everybodies rvr experience by evading fights etc.
@wam: Comparing a half functioning system to a previous version of the game (pre t2-4 merge) in order to justify not making the current system better makes little sense.
You see this can go down a road that is slightly open to exploitation and abuse if they are worth too much, that is why I guess they do things on the side of caution because they know what playerbase is like and have banned/wiped people before in the past for similar things... because the boundaries/temptation of easy significant gains and think they can get away with it /kill trading /feeding etc... now if they lowered the limit and effort required for the one party to do the kill trading... then you see making a alt account getting to lvl 16 isn't massive time consuming or challenge. Look also from their point of view, so it's a bit of a grey area and not clear cut as you might think.
Also the fight evading part, is sadly part of the game... it's a shame but it is what it is, like realm's conceding zone's and not going to defend properly, or come back and poke even though they have numbers but rather afk / sit on bo and let enemy lock zone increasing their chance of reward... or just sit in camp to screw with enemy and troll defend by not defending. Passive gameplay is rewarded more than pro active gameplay that is another issue in itself. It use to be entirely the opposite way (which wasnt perfect either) but its encouraged bad habits like BO sitting and not fighting tooth and nail over every keep and more so on order side. Lost Count the amount of times ive seen 30 order guys afk on BO near their warcamp while keep is under attack and needs defenders, none of these react or care... because they get rewarded for sitting on bo, letting someone else do it, and if destro take they get a bag roll. Meanwhile if they was at keep, the defense would hold with a extra 30 guys, it would be even numbers but nope, player mentality for easy gains, which relates back to kill trading... players look for maximum returns without fighting resistance. Its not a big step from afk on bo.
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- roadkillrobin
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Re: Bolstering looks stupid now
You guys should been around when PVP servers were a thing.
No bolsters, always RVR flagged, 20 lvls wide tiers.
No bolsters, always RVR flagged, 20 lvls wide tiers.
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