Class Matrix

[kkprfx]

That's completely objective. No point in having such thing for balance talks.

[kkprfx]

Stop waiting for someone else do it and do it yourself then.

[Sigimund]

There are a few left over from retail and pre-release. They're not perfect though. Class design and how players used them evolved over the years.

[bichka]

it's useless, imho
unique abilities/tactics/morales/class mechanic like Rampage is not comparable, since there no analogues on other side.

and that's why i like WAR, it's super boring when sides is fully|mostly mirrored.

want to have "fair" challenge - there a GW2 (i hope it's still here) where on scenarios there no gear progression, all is equal and mirrored. Bad news here - you don't have any excuse for being bad because you have access to anything from first second of playing game.

Personally i dislike their microbuff/microdebuff system. It's kinda boring to watch on all this small buff/debuff icons which lasts in few seconds and act according them.

[Ramasee]

This is probably the most recent public posting of anything similar; although it is oriented towards warband balance.

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=27840&start=40#p315765

[Shalktonin]

it's useless, imho
unique abilities/tactics/morales/class mechanic like Rampage is not comparable, since there no analogues on other side.

and that's why i like WAR, it's super boring when sides is fully|mostly mirrored.

want to have "fair" challenge - there a GW2 (i hope it's still here) where on scenarios there no gear progression, all is equal and mirrored. Bad news here - you don't have any excuse for being bad because you have access to anything from first second of playing game.

Personally i dislike their microbuff/microdebuff system. It's kinda boring to watch on all this small buff/debuff icons which lasts in few seconds and act according them.

data and information is never useless, only the scared claim no information is better than some information.

[adamthelc]

it's useless, imho
unique abilities/tactics/morales/class mechanic like Rampage is not comparable, since there no analogues on other side.

and that's why i like WAR, it's super boring when sides is fully|mostly mirrored.

want to have "fair" challenge - there a GW2 (i hope it's still here) where on scenarios there no gear progression, all is equal and mirrored. Bad news here - you don't have any excuse for being bad because you have access to anything from first second of playing game.

Personally i dislike their microbuff/microdebuff system. It's kinda boring to watch on all this small buff/debuff icons which lasts in few seconds and act according them.

Having 24 classes that aren't mirrored means there are little known exploits that exist within the game that players can use to tip the balance unfairly in their favor. Due to the complex nature of combat formulas these exploits remain hidden to most and makes balance impossible.
True balance is only achievable with mirrored classes. The only reason not to mirror classes is to have a game that is not balanced because you either know of or seek out these exploits. AoR was never designed to have mirrored classes and therefore balance never was and never will be achievable.

Is true player skill being the best with your classes abilities and knowledge of your enemies abilities or is it your knowledge of the exploitation of the games inbalance's?

Exploiting in the negative sense is when you are doing something you know is not functioning the way its intended.

If you are just using the skill provided in the most effective way possible. You could call that exploiting, but that's not really a negative thing, it just means you are playing decently.

Mirroring things exactly IS easier to balance. It's also a little more boring. Ideally each side should have a few nice things the other side doesnt and be able to use those things to make them nearly as effective as the other side.

That's just my opinion, I understand the argument for 100% mirrors for better balance. I just find it boring and not as fun. Also I think that more often than not other factors are what decide fights and not balance.

That's not to say I think everything is in a good state of balance. I just think that numbers and the ability of player are going to be deciding factors more than the different things one side has that the other doesnt.

Knowledge of the game is important to being effective, but the way most people look at player skill is wrong. Your job is not to be better than your opponent, it's to be less bad. Everyone is going to make mistake and give you opportunities. Your job is to capitalize on those mistakes while limiting your mistakes until you get that chance.

Having a good knowledge of the game helps with that, awareness helps with that, gear helps with that, good teammates helps with that, outnumbering people helps with that and the list goes on.

Having a list could help with that, but it might be better for you if you learn on your own.

[drmordread]

We do realize that WAR broke the mold for faction v faction mmo, right? The classes were never meant to be mirrors. The attempt to make them into mirrors is actually hurting game play.

Just use the WH/WE as an example.
A Witch Elf has kisses (bullets for a WH) that apply on every attack giving them (along with a possible 15% crit bonus a WH does not have), MASSIVE burst right out of stealth. In return, Witch Elf finishers (were) melee range only. As a matter of fact on Beta and the first release of the game the WE was the most potent DPS in the game.

A Witch Hunter had ranged finishers.

WE players complained about unbalance and got ranged finishers too. WH got zip.

So, as you can see the classes were never meant to be mirrored. Doing so breaks the brilliant evolution of the mmo game and regresses back to the boring old mirror v mirror game you can find anywhere and every where. Every class had its strength. You just had to invest time to learn it. When dual realm was NOT an option, people took the time.

[bichka]

>A Witch Hunter had ranged finishers.
you just forgot to write a little more, right?
M4 in 2nd branch with is able to help kill any target, no matter what you will do. Pretty good for 6x6 fights when sides is almost equal and hard to kill each other.
Defensive M3, which almost never used, but had almost same effect as M1 against melee train. Remember, there no rampage or undefendable BW's tactic on destro side.

2 Finishers which not even comparible with any what WE have. EW is about damage AND 3-4 stats debuff. Pretty huge debuff. Also standard for this server BAL + RB. FOr some reason dev decided to make dot ticks undefendable. And here we go, BAL is best for destroying PUG, because nobody care about cleansing and doing non-physical damage.

Bullets is granted and doing more damage. That mean you can do ALOT of spike damage while pressing EW once. But we aer lucky here, most WH is about RB+BAL.

[kkprfx]

it's useless, imho
unique abilities/tactics/morales/class mechanic like Rampage is not comparable, since there no analogues on other side.

and that's why i like WAR, it's super boring when sides is fully|mostly mirrored.

want to have "fair" challenge - there a GW2 (i hope it's still here) where on scenarios there no gear progression, all is equal and mirrored. Bad news here - you don't have any excuse for being bad because you have access to anything from first second of playing game.

Personally i dislike their microbuff/microdebuff system. It's kinda boring to watch on all this small buff/debuff icons which lasts in few seconds and act according them.

Having 24 classes that aren't mirrored means there are little known exploits that exist within the game that players can use to tip the balance unfairly in their favor. Due to the complex nature of combat formulas these exploits remain hidden to most and makes balance impossible.
True balance is only achievable with mirrored classes. The only reason not to mirror classes is to have a game that is not balanced because you either know of or seek out these exploits. AoR was never designed to have mirrored classes and therefore balance never was and never will be achievable.

Is true player skill being the best with your classes abilities and knowledge of your enemies abilities or is it your knowledge of the exploitation of the games inbalance's?

Give an example of these "exploits"