War lack of endgame.

[Zxul]

Or the fact that there is non.

Logging into session of say Counter-Strike, compared to logging into War and going rvr- which one is more fun, gameplay speaking only? As such, what keeps mmos going is the character progression. And here comes the great problem which War always had- what do you do when you are rr100 in full WF, or in RoR rr80 in full conq? Besides reroll?

The problem started with the original AoR vision- keeps which are temporally taken then reset. If your win means nothing in the long run, you don't really have a reason to fight, besides renown tick and a chance for a bag. When AoR was just announced, I remember the resetting keeps mechanic being enough for many pvp players to not want to even try it in first place.

To compare, years ago I been playing Anarchy Online mmo (still alive after all those years, actually). It had a mass rvr mechanic introduced in Notum Wars expansion, with areas where orgs (guilds) could place towers which gave bonuses both org-wide and personal to a placing member. The placement was permanent, until destroyed by a different side (or rarely a different org). As a result, I remember several tower fights which lasted for over a week of nonstop fighting, with 100+ players on each side at each open tower field.

Then AO also had quite a bit of progression at top lvl:

- itemization (much more equipment slots compared to War, and much harder to get BiS items)
- money actually being important compared to specially RoR gold (again, itemization- but this time non-bop rare drops in different forms, compared to RoR where there is really not much reason to farm gold once you have 2 k or so free)
- research personal progression (there relevant part being unlock of mechs, out of War options those can be most closely linked to siege equipment)
- org cities (pve areas claimable by orgs, where members can farm specific form of xp and rare equipment- assuming sufficient time and money investment by the org to enable it)

Quite a bit of those could be actually translated to RoR, for example:

- Towers- some form of rvr objectives permanently claimed by guilds, and offering benefits to, until captured by guild from opposite realm under specific conditions. Possibly- attackable only once city had been captured, to give much greater motivation for keep/city fights.
- Itemization- RoR has a very poor itemization atime, with lots of specs only having choice between 2 BiS items for each slot. As such:
* pvp boe rare drops- items similar to backpacks for example.
* many more sets similar to Rare Fortune one- with specific sets dropping from pvp or pve.
* change to blue/purple items- atime Harbinger armor parts for example are much harder to get than conq- but are useless. Adding tali slots to those will make them valuable, without making them better than set gear (no set bonuses).
- Research- progression form open after rr 80, unlocking advanced siege equipment, instead of personal bonuses.
- Cities- possibly instances claimable by guilds under specific conditions (for example, remake the skaven instances into those).

Implementing those would allow character progression after rr80, without massively overpowering high rr toons comparing to lower ones.

The ultimate goal is to both give players a reason to stick with toons (and ultimately, with RoR), after rr80, and to give more meaning (and motivation) for keep fights.

[Fallenkezef]

Next item on dev team's list are the keeps

[adamthelc]

You seem to think very fondly of your time playing anarchy online. I have no idea what that is, but I understand remembering games fondly.


Warhammer has had more of an endgame than it does now. There are obvious limitations, that I don't think I need to into at this juncture. Could they do some of those ideas? Are they good ideas? Maybe, but I think its a little unnecessary to bring up the limited content of the game currently.

The game has a lot of content available to them that they probably don't need to go adding totally new stuff until they repurpose a lot of the stuff Warhammer already did.

[saupreusse]

We currently dont have endgame content like forts or cities in the game, and also our itemization is only at conq level. There are still a lot of armor sets to come be it RvR or PvE and with client control our possibilities in this regard might be endless sooner or later and I have also heard that the idea of having multiple different ways to equip your char at later gear levels is something that the leads have been at least talking about.
As for additional Endgame content - I know there are ideas in the team but if you have suggestions keep em coming its always good to hear some more

[bughed]

AO anarchy online had some of the better pvp..not rvr but sc style pvp
they admitted you couldn't balance pve and pvp properly so they made a tag npc vs pc
youre skills did different things based on if you were a mob or a pc

[Dabbart]

^^^ doesn't WAR already do that ala Punts/KDs on mobs?

OPs analogies are strange. CSGO has an avg of 276k players with a peak of 426k over the last 30 days. So saying which one has better gameplay and using progression or end-game content as a mandatory just doesn't fit. How much progression is there in CS:GO outside of Skins? CS:GO was released in 2012(nevermind 1.6 or previous versions) and still generates nearly half a million players at a time. Note: I love CS:GO and still watch ELeague and the Majors every year. #SkaIsGod

People play MMOs cause they want something different. A lot of people play WAR because they enjoy the PvP elements of it and the MMO grinding/advancement be damned. Hence why T1 always seems to have action in Nordland, even when the zone is locked and no RR/XP to be gained there... Others, simply want the advancement/end-game battles. Lots of people play games for lots of different "reasons". A lot of Gamers want a pure PvE relaxed farming/crafting/building environment. WAR is not for everyone.

WAR's crafting system sucks. But it's functional, and relatively easy to understand, deal with, then get back into the fighting. A few hours a month of farming and you'll have every consumable that you need. WAR has no housing/building system. It is about Combat, be that PvE or PvP. The Gold currency system is borked. Outside of buying consumables, flying, Mount, Respec Costs, Dyes, buying rare drops on the AH, buying crafting materials, and buying consumables(to save time crafting/farming) Gold aint worth much. But y'know, that's a lot of stuff. I'm an alt-aholic, but I also farm a lot. I rarely have more than 400g sitting around. Those that have 10k's of gold tend to of farmed most of that preT4 release, when you could get like 9.5g per 25kills in an SC/ORvR via kill quests. or *cough*exploits/bugs*cough*.

RoR is so far from finished it's kind of staggering. These are the same arguments I read when I joined the server and T3 32/40 was cap. But we still had a dedicated playerbase, and once T4 was released we hit Server Cap all the time. Be happy with what you got, and if you think you have "no choices!" go do a google search for what Equipment you had to choose from on Live pre LoTD or RR100 release. Just wait until Keeps are released. This server will be PACKED.

And for the record, if you have more than 1 option for "BiS" then you fundamentally DON'T have a BiS. Cause you have options, which means there is no BiS.

[Tirien27]

You will always find the wall at the end. Unless you release expansions, or another game completely. The end game is not here obviously, city sieges and what not, but if they had that, and all the gear in the world....of warhammer , and loads of endgame content, after that what´s next?

Right now leveling up to 40 is a pain, i wanna make alts even if they dont have any x3 events, and getting conq will take some time. But t4 as end-game atm is fine..

But i can´t wait until city sieges comes, will be a blast! Remember, you have to hold on to players that do level up, so they get to see everything the game has to offer before they quit, equally as important. If things take too much time, they wont be around.

[Dajciekrwi]

You will always find the wall at the end.

Yes that was the problem of WAR:AoR, and will be here too. But now we need some kind of epiloque for campaign, and t4 lacking a fabular story ending. So Cities areas a logical ulitmate goal for fights from t1-t4.

[Telen]

Pushing or getting pushed all the way to city only to sit in an empty instance was far from the epic climax to a campaign. Its the main reason I think players in our alliance just drifted away. Without that endgame I personally dont feel much reason to engage with the campaign or even bother getting active in organised guilds like I would in live. Fix that and I think you go a long way towards getting the motivation.

[Zxul]

Bumping this.

Was always a problem with War- on magus after a month or so playing (rr64 atime) I already running into it.

There should be a reason to keep playing after you got to rr80- in other mmos getting to top rank doesn't means "time to reroll".