sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

[peterthepan3]

Why not to make the pug scene solo only? As far as I can tell, even duos have significant advantage over solo players.

What's wrong with duos queuing for the PUG sc, given the aforementioned point, i.e. that you have 11 other people with you that can potentially negate the effect of a duo - if said 11 people actually bothered to assist?

Why are we constantly ignoring the lack of assist/teamplay in these pug SCs, and that assisting is a viable means of dealing with exceptional players and/or duos? Is it not a valid point? I've been in pug SCs against duos, spoke in /sc chat telling people to focus them, and we've won. What's the issue?

@Hogun

Pug SC was created to appease players who have no desire of a challenging fight; who want both all of the cake, and to eat it.

[Wam]

@szejoza

Spoiler:

I see sc's simlar way, well the pug one's... its casual and relaxing from raid leading as a duo

means i can play more as a tank instead of a "leader"

just because someone is casual doesn't mean they have to be bad though

that's why im surprised not to see more large active casual guilds like I did on Karak Norn

Just like if someone is a roleplayer doesn't mean they have to be bad / have that stigma attached... even "clickers" too... one of best BW on norn was clicker and he wrecked people in duel's...

I think number's imbalance at start of SC is more of a problem than premade... because it effects momentum and then psychology... a improved ready up system would be way to fix that, so both sides start equal as they can be no complaints / whining although maybe some nature to always complain

Majority of premades should know better than to stack up in pug sc's... that's a sure way to find trouble, good you have proof.

@hogun
complaining about 6 man sure i understand ...
But as a DUO... their combination will lack something... I was always def tank and with pure healer... we lacked damage dealers but brought alot of support to help the "team" out... that is not OP or broken... just strong because capable players working together (but the other side should have capable players working together too)
if you brought dps and healer... okay more offensive, less support, if no tank then easy to assist and spike you down...
2 healers... alot of support but no offense...
2 dps... alot of dmg no sustain

You have to rely on the "team" which is what Pug sc is about and pvp/rvr in general, its team based game... and hope the RNG fills in what you are missing in the "team"

[warislove]

thing is that the pool of players queing for scs isnt big so when a few ppl from same guild or alliance meet in the same sc ofc they will be more co oriented than those that are plucked from left and right....

[hogun]

my questions are:

how to fight against players who do not respect the rules of the server.

Can we harden the rules of the SC pug in order to meet its purpose?

for the rest in fact I do not care, I laugh about all these players probably very young who thinks to win by all means more than class and fun but I accept the rules of the server (ex NB) but I am an old dwarf who always grumble an mutter i cant change!
It is sad to see players saying that they have trained small groups to go to Sc pug, if they are so good that why do not they go to other sc's? because is it easier to earn rr on lvl 32? or want to teach how to play casual and noob? pity ... we all know why duo see several duo go to sc pug ...

so the big lesson about the good and bad player thank you but there should be no group of "good" player in sc pug!

if you are solo dont go to fight with premade i can understand ... if you are duo or more ...its not normal

[peterthepan3]

my questions are:

how to fight against players who do not respect the rules of the server.

Can we harden the rules of the SC pug in order to meet its purpose?

for the rest in fact I do not care, I laugh about all these players probably very young who thinks to win by all means more than class and fun but I accept the rules of the server (ex NB) but I am an old dwarf who always grumble an mutter i cant change!
It is sad to see players saying that they have trained small groups to go to Sc pug, if they are so good that why do not they go to other sc's? because is it easier to earn rr on lvl 32? or want to teach how to play casual and noob? pity ... we all know why duo see several duo go to sc pug ...

so the big lesson about the good and bad player thank you but there should be no group of "good" player in sc pug!

if you are solo dont go to fight with premade i can understand ... if you are duo or more ...its not normal

why should players be forced to wait for longer pops when they can queue for the pug SC as a duo and get more emblems with less risk? and let's not pretend that this game requires people to be 'so good'.

[Darosh]

I have the proof, reported to GM and he dealt with them

But I'm not gonna share it with you forum-warriors that only care about minmaxing and don't see a place for a casuals in games

I am not interested in being dragged into a brawl revolving around group identities. Before I nope out of this discussion, did it cross your mind that some of the 'forum-warriors' are 'casuals' themselves and simply sick of having their experience ruined by brainafk players that spend their time crying wolf (either its evil premades or balance, the eternal circlejerk) rather than playing the game?

Whenever these topics are being discussed people start to conjur up that evil elitist persona (that wants to ruin everyones fun and exclude everyone who does not pass the legendary epeen-purity test, yadayada) - that they have crafted for and by themselves - to strap it onto whoever disagrees with them.

I'd still be interested in the criteria by which it is being decided whether its a coincidence (e.g.: Aura's and Wam's experience) or a scrubby premade. Hanlon's razor*, anyone? Or Occam's for that matter...

Abbd.: To the latter: I'd assume GM tools to only get you so far - you'll still depend on 'gut feeling' and quite literal guilt by assosciation (to a guild) more than anything.

*Note, I'd suggest the lesser known quotes for reference.

E: Added an important set of words...

[Loalatal]

I personally see no problem with allowing duo in the pug scenario. When you have teams of twelve, yes a duo can swing the balance of a SC. But I have never been personally defeated just because of the duo. Often times both teams will have duos. There's a thousand other factors that occur that I feel lose the scenario before I jump to blame a duo queue. The main case being that people don't play the objective in pug SC.

I feel that duo queue adds a lot to the pvp experience. It's gives an introductory way to experience group play for the newer players. And as cheesy as it sounds it allows for more comraderie, which, in a mmo (a game built around being social) is needed.

Removing duo queue would take away good experiences that people have for the sake of small SC balance. As a person who only plays either solo or duo, the slight balance of removing it is not worth it.

[hogun]

why should players be forced to wait for longer pops when they can queue for the pug SC as a duo and get more emblems with less risk? and let's not pretend that this game requires people to be 'so good'.

because its a game and be fair play its cool , or respect casual its honorable... or you want to be better and you recherche challenge ...

[Renork]

I don’t see a problem with duos. Yes, it sucks when you see 8/12 players from the same guild in the pug scenario, but instead of complaining just take a screenshot and pm a GM. You can get to know your pug mates and coordinate better. @Darosh If you’re playing in a duo and you’re not in vent/discord you may as well not be in a duo. Calling out a target or a switch or a punt in real time vs. typing makes a HUGE difference.

[Darosh]

@Darosh If you’re playing in a duo and you’re not in vent/discord you may as well not be in a duo. Calling out a target or a switch or a punt in real time vs. typing makes a HUGE difference.

Too lazy to hint at it, so I might aswell be blunt:
I'd say that voice chat - at this point in time - can (you've been in a pug scs before, haven' you?) and is (by some in this thread) being considered overkill...plain and basic reliability raises red flags.

Voice chat (even if its just listening) is second nature to most gamers (rather than players in this instance), I'd guess.