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sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

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OldPlayer
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#61 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:32 pm

altharion1 wrote: Similarly, the pug is eternally stuck in the cycle of throwing himself at the pug SC. It only worsens his lot. The gear he obtains is only a temporary bliss, until he must, once again, throw his delicate body to the digusting torment that is the pug SC. And worst thing of all is that he has no idea of the long term health impacts of this cycle, the long term respiratory issues, back pain and liver disease.
I have never realized how dangerous can be pug SC to humanity's health and sanity, how evil is the dependency it creates in the souls of the cursed few who have tried it.
magicthighs wrote:Finding bugs is what players are for. The RoR team itself doesn't have the people nor the time to do that.

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peterthepan3
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#62 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:33 pm

gebajger wrote:
peterthepan3 wrote:by all means, Hogun: play how you want. just don't come to the forums and complain when competent players manhandle you for doing just that.
By competent you mean a number of people speaking the same language being in vent (discord, etc)?
90% of these premades do 1 thing: chain cc 1 guy and kill them while they're disabled, move on to the next target, often using nerfedbuttons, to make things even easier.....competence has nothing to do with it.

ofc i mean competent for ror standards, i.e. basic **** most people from other pvp mmos take as nobrainers. i've maintained that the game itself is easy to play.
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Rodek
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#63 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:39 pm

Me and my brother Q duo all the time. We've also seen a duo Order side that does the same thing. Just because you Q duo doesn't mean auto-win. Typically what determines a win or loss is the lack of any kind of PvP intelligence on one or the other side (not always).

When you have 8 people beating on tanks and constantly retreating to a spawn your not going to win. PTO is the biggest mistake the losing side forgets (along with not protecting healers).

There didn't use to be a Q solo or Q group. I'd just assume it was one big melting pot anyway. If your getting farmed put together your own group and work together. Part of what makes WAR such a great game was having people work together.

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altharion1
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#64 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:40 pm

OldPlayer wrote: I have never realized how dangerous can be pug SC to humanity's health and sanity, how evil is the dependency it creates in the souls of the cursed few who have tried it.
Exactly, at least someone understands.

I would propose a GM/Dev led US style "Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program". This would help pugs as they would then only be able to spend their emblems, spec points and tactics on "state certified" useful stuff, rather than wasting it on cigarettes, narcotics, alcohol and dominator gear for Warrior priests.

A long with this Pugs, bad players and generally useless people should also have to pay into some sort of ingame insurance programme, whereby when useful players die because of their negligent actions in SCs, the useful players are rewarded with some sort of compensation.
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Darosh
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#65 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:41 pm

Telen wrote:
Spoiler:
altharion1 wrote:
bloodi wrote:
I didnt know i could watch pug scs as a viewer just like you can watch homeless people fight.

Is there a link to a stream about it? Can we put bets on it somehow ala Saltybet?? Are you really this dumb? Do we have a policing organization full of corruption like Fifa in charge of it?

Your post raises up so many questions.
You pay the homeless man $3.50 to fight another homeless guy. The winner takes his $3.50, and eventually he has enough to buy his hit of crack. He takes his hit, he feels good. But then he has no money again. He comes back to you and wants to fight for another $3.50. He will never escape this cycle. He'll never have a car, a house or nice things, he is eternally doomed to fight for his $3.50 to fund his crack addiction.

Similarly, the pug is eternally stuck in the cycle of throwing himself at the pug SC. It only worsens his lot. The gear he obtains is only a temporary bliss, until he must, once again, throw his delicate body to the digusting torment that is the pug SC. And worst thing of all is that he has no idea of the long term health impacts of this cycle, the long term respiratory issues, back pain and liver disease.

The moral of the story is to never give someone $3.50.
Taking your weird example. Not all specs are created equally. Just as we arent all born into the poverty that commonly leads to homelessness. I think of the pug sc as more like a charity. Helping those that dont have fotm class, bis gear, gaming setups, nb knowledge nad particularly, a busy life.
You might aswell toss the pugs an invite to a group (or direct them towards one, or a guild), and help them figure out how to get the most out of their character and playtime.
A group offers more than min-max (which barely anyone <really> commits to), assist, guard, heal, yadayada ~ namely advice (e.g.: mechanics, gear, strats, changes, yadayada) and constructive criticism, last but not least certainly more entertainment (e.g.: [voice] chat) than the dice roll powered pug SC...

I'd, in any case, suggest we do not lock the people (and the various problems) away, into instanced free-for-alls.

Now, before anyone alledges that I want other to play 'like I want them to play' - it doesn't hurt trying it out, does it? If you don't fancy it, well, you don't fancy it ~ best case scenario: you find interest in it and folks to play with, worst case scenario: you get back to into the pug dreadmill.

Btw, wtf is that analogy even - I mean I get your point, but thats some odd imagery, alth'.

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Telen
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#66 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:43 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:ofc i mean competent for ror standards, i.e. basic **** most people from other pvp mmos take as nobrainers. i've maintained that the game itself is easy to play.
The playerbase here is no different than any mmo I have played. The majority of every mmo are casual the only difference being in other mmos pvp is never a focus so many casual players never even take part.
Really if you dont want to fight casuals youre better going to a game that has less focus on pvp as you usually onlky get the pvp guilds that just pvp all day together doing it. All the casuals in those games just play pve for a few hours a night.
Ironically war is the least relevant game to what you always say you want.
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Darosh
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#67 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:48 pm

Telen wrote:
peterthepan3 wrote:ofc i mean competent for ror standards, i.e. basic **** most people from other pvp mmos take as nobrainers. i've maintained that the game itself is easy to play.
The playerbase here is no different than any mmo I have played. The majority of every mmo are casual the only difference being in other mmos pvp is never a focus so many casual players never even take part.
Really if you dont want to fight casuals youre better going to a game that has less focus on pvp as you usually onlky get the pvp guilds that just pvp all day together doing it. All the casuals in those games just play pve for a few hours a night.
Ironically war is the least relevant game to what you always say you want.
Not speaking for Peter here, but WAR is among the most group-centric and dependent games there are ~ it might not be competitive in a strict mechanical sense, but it is incredible in terms of the tangible, immediate effect that groupplay translates into.

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Fallenkezef
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#68 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:49 pm

Ahh the "pugs are scum and should be forced to face premades till they quit" v "premades are evil and exist only to exploit the casual playerbase" arguments.

The current system works as best as we are going to get. Wargrimnir had made it very plain that the staff see SC's as a minigame snd they have no interest in paying anymore attention to it.

Not that it needs any fixing, just screenshot pug abuse.
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Darosh
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#69 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:56 pm

Fallenkezef wrote:Ahh the "pugs are scum and should be forced to face premades till they quit" v "premades are evil and exist only to exploit the casual playerbase" arguments.

The current system works as best as we are going to get. Wargrimnir had made it very plain that the staff see SC's as a minigame snd they have no interest in paying anymore attention to it.

Not that it needs any fixing, just screenshot pug abuse.
You are aware that city sieges will be scenarios on steroids, yes? A pug only city siege will be impossible to enforce, if not only because of the size of the population.

Hence this discussion is relevant longterm, as it will invetiably flare up again once we'll see the cities again.

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Aurandilaz
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Re: sc pug is it a trap for noob player ?

Post#70 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:57 pm

Rodek wrote:If your getting farmed put together your own group and work together.
If it all just were so simple. That when encountering enemy 6man, the other side would have players who would instantly form a 2-2-2 setup that can easily fight the other premade and encounter a 50:50 win lose ratio.

No.

Realistically, there will be premades that have strict 2-2-2 setups with best possible classes picked to maximize performance of the team, with classes running strict specs to minmax results and function with preplanned synergy. They might have on average rr60-70+ chars with endgame gear.
Then the other premade might have weird 1-3-2 setups or 5-1 or 3-3 or 2-4 or whatever composition with "alpha test specs" that are borderline garbage from the point of minmaxing efficiency. Yet they can be fun. Their gear might not be best possible, but it might be borderline-okayish for some situations.
This "alpha phase test" group might have some success versus other possible weird setups, melt a few solo queuers on the way, until they meet an actual 6man boiband that just wrecks them because some setups honestly cannot compete against current meta compositions. Not all specs are equal. Not all classes are equal. Not all compositions are equal.

Honestly, not many players in this 5year old dead game have the motivation left to get their meta boiband together so they can dominate scenario spawn/warcamp areas and jump on their challen enemies while writing "eazy" on their corpses.
The rewards are mediocre. The "entrance fee" (cost of time to gear up, find optimal setup, time spent achieving group synergy) to compete against other "competitive boibands"; it's just not worthwhile.

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