Balance

[kmark101]

You can argue all you want with abilities and classes, they are pretty much balanced in the long run, op skills here and there but they won't matter in the big picture, none of them are game breaking.

It's PURELY about quick morale pump and quick morale dump, that's the single part of the game that causes this level of unbalance in open world RVR. Only one side have access to it, the other side simply can't do the same. Being Tank heavy on Destro side just adds to this issue as more Razes are flying around 10 seconds after the the start of any battle. Those Razes are huge and the MAIN REASON why Order tank walls are crumbling superfast - your hp instantly gone and you can't do anything against it, you can't block it, you can't dodge it, you can't mitigate it, it's like you go to war against destro warbands with half of your hitpoints. I don't understand how people can't see this issue when talking about balancing orvr...

How to fix it? I think morale pump abilities should be removed completely from every class. If ppl would need faster morales they should gear up for it with +morale equipment (at the cost of other stats, like defensive ones).

[Penril]

Crippling Strikes doesn't even reduce damage anymore. It is a debuff now that increases your target's chance to be crit by 10%. Procs on crits. And did someone seriously mention Git to da Choppa?

Anyway, you can keep talking about which side is currently zerging. The moment you start mentioning certain specs/tactics/whatever, it turns into a balance discussion outside of the BDF. Which means I have to lock the thread. Just a friendly warning.

[Darosh]

A comprehensive collection of formulas, mechanics, interactions and changes - alongside a statement as to where the journey is meant to go; what 'testers' are expected to consider intended and what not to consider intended; a /duel-function (as limited as it has to/can be while maintaing functionality), dolls or alike, aswell as tools to parse and test stuff properly would go long way.
For as long there is no opportunity to test - let alone any consistency to be achived (parsing everyday encounters that are no more than the culmination of bad play, gear variance, realm fluctation and general randomness is a waste of time) - and substantial results to be produced, balance discussions will constantly flare up everywhere, and they won't die down or be concluded in a reasonable manner either, as they are frankly based on perception and devoid of any numbercrunching whatsoever.

The grass is greener on which ever side of the fence one is currently not playing at ~ this sentiment will prevail for as long things move in circles, around subjective goalposts.

Introduce numbers and you'll get rid of most - if not all - shitposters, as they'll either won't be willing to commit and see their written feces flung back at them in a soulcrushing manner or actually commit and drop their schtick - in a completly natural way.
No warnings, no nothing ~ and even if one does catch a warning in an otherwise civil discussion revolving around the expressions of objectivity (backed up 0's,1's, 2's and all the other fancy symbols), it will be - for everyone involved, including the 'culprit' - readily apparent that it was warranted... how couldn't it be, if one is the only one breaking up the stream of numbers, charts and alike.

In this case one could, for example:
Run statistics on realm population (accounting for timezones, yadayada), alongside various other factors (avg. kills per X, avg. zoneflips per realm and tier, yadayada) and publish them.
It doesn't have to be driven by the staff, it can be an community effort ~ the only thing required is assistance in faciliating it, as most ultimately are tech plebs.
However, it would - I am sure of it - prevent these kind of threads, as numbers tend to intimidate 9/10 individuals, regardless of what they might or might not portray.
Truth be told, most wouldn't dare to stir up **** simply because they couldn't estimate the chance of being told off, let alone fathom being told off in a manner that does not give them an opportunity to come back with a snarky comment.

Don't underestimate the impacts of insecurity and uncertainty, especially unguided these mechanisms tend to culminate in animosity, and that very animosity will whittle down every community and individual in the long run, if not only because animosity drags along stress ~ the last thing you, I, anyone wants to experience in our leisure time. Bad things tend to kick each other into overdrive, once a certain treshold is surpassed.

Simply put: reason > authority, as far as didactic and administrative measures are concerned; you can argue and seek conflict with a person(a), you can't do that with numbers.
Long story even shorter, acknowledge the one thing that is - regardless of one's personal approach - so very great about communities: the mere ability and opportunity to outsource problems and the finding of solutions. You have the resources (plenty of folks and their cognitive capabilities), it just needs infrastructure.
We do at the moment, if I may be so snarky, work with and rely on smoke signals and club each other over the heads with wooden bats, whilst essentially - occassionally - making noises that are - and only can be - interpreted correctly by accident.

Abbd.:
For an actual TLDR have a look at the spoiler in my signature. Much luv.


E: Words.

[Pumatouch]

Spoiler:

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[Drbus]

Im curious as to what people think of destro being OP. I think Mara is strong but by no means OP. Runaway is really good. But I don't think it breaks the game.

When you have the formula changes for defense contributing so much and then several order classes that just bypass all this just seems unfair.

[dansari]

I feel the bait.

Run Away is stupid. Way too high of a movement speed buff (in a game where movement speed is king) paired with high proc chance.

Spoiler:

To make it "balanced," you would need to drop the proc chance and the movement speed slightly, plus give it an ICD.. would be cool to change the active Run Away from a movement speed buff into a pounce towards a friendly target too

Auto detaunt is stupid, especially because it procs off of dots, thereby giving shamans (and SHs who run it) a 25% flat decrease on incoming damage from all damage sources at pretty much 100% uptime on every aggressor.

Spoiler:

To make it "balanced," you would need to give a max of players affected by the detaunt.. like 2 or 3, or an ICD of proccing on new targets of about 3s.. would love to bring these up in a balance discussion, but there's no way a SH or Shammy will bring up these broken tactics (from an RVR perspective) in a proposal.

Those are the only two things I take issue with. Destro wins the morale pump game through sheer number of classes that have access to self or party morale gain, but that's less of an issue. Oh.. and Mara is the only class that can aoe drain morale (outside of fringe Solar Flare setups that are neither reliable nor reasonable)

[Telen]

Its another of those weird Mythic inconsistencies. Greenskins have seperate racial tactics for Orcs and Goblin careers. Both very much tailored to the careers of both. A speed proc and auto detaunt for kiting classes and a crit dmg and wound increase for Orcs. No other races have this.

[anarchypark]

recent double xp event gave the opportunity to test other toons on the other side.

It's just conspiracy but maybe a lot of destro moved to order. soon they'll go back to their main, i hope.

if zerg is so boring, come to aao side.

[Thamor]

I feel the bait.

Run Away is stupid. Way too high of a movement speed buff (in a game where movement speed is king) paired with high proc chance.

Spoiler:

To make it "balanced," you would need to drop the proc chance and the movement speed slightly, plus give it an ICD.. would be cool to change the active Run Away from a movement speed buff into a pounce towards a friendly target too

Auto detaunt is stupid, especially because it procs off of dots, thereby giving shamans (and SHs who run it) a 25% flat decrease on incoming damage from all damage sources at pretty much 100% uptime on every aggressor.

Spoiler:

To make it "balanced," you would need to give a max of players affected by the detaunt.. like 2 or 3, or an ICD of proccing on new targets of about 3s.. would love to bring these up in a balance discussion, but there's no way a SH or Shammy will bring up these broken tactics (from an RVR perspective) in a proposal.

Those are the only two things I take issue with. Destro wins the morale pump game through sheer number of classes that have access to self or party morale gain, but that's less of an issue. Oh.. and Mara is the only class that can aoe drain morale (outside of fringe Solar Flare setups that are neither reliable nor reasonable)

Surprised no lock already when talking about Goblin tactics. SH with runaway is okayish, but shammy is the most broken with it. Speed boost + aoe snare 60% lake 'nuff said.

About morale pumping, destruction is the king of that and will dominate RVR most of the time because of it. You can already see alot of M4 morales in scenarios from destruction tanks for Order well maybe once a year. Destruction have a lot of stuff that Order isn't even close to mirrorin on any class. Compared to many of the things order do well destruction can do it as well little different maybe, but still almost the same thing. Only BW fireball + flashfire isn't mirrored & WL pounce.

[Irongit]

Order is way too disorganized. I often find myself having to make a warband that gets filled with players fast from all the people waiting for it because no one else will. So until i do so, people waiting for a warband will lack buffs and organization and be easy killing for destros warbands