Cross-mirror versus Strict mirror

[oaliaen]

Dwarfs like engie and rp can hide inside bushes and can heal/attack from them like cheeky wankers, which mag/zel can't do due to character models

Perhaps trivial things but advantages will still exist

Turn enemy HP on and you'll not be sneaky attaked anymore

[Penril]

Strict mirroring won't happen.

[adamthelc]

I like the way this game is set up, but there are flaws.

One I remeber hearing a lot of complaints about was CD increases.

Slayer/Choppa are pretty good mirrors. But the Slayer gets shattered Limbs. While Destro gets it on a spec that doesnt get played that much in the melee SH.

Even with the flaws I like it more this way. It makes the game less boring and allows the sides to be a little different.

[catholicism198]

Strict mirrors no. But both sides should have access to the same utilities and abilities- gap closer for melee- a pull that can't be disrupted- ranged knockdowns- critical tactics- etc.

[alusnova]

So squigs are getting pounce ? Are they still going to be ranged or strictly meele if they spec that way. If we don't want strict mirroring then why is Destro to getting a WL? I'm fine without getting the captain in this server we can play both sides and thus if I want to play a Maura I can just play Destro and vice versa.

Now I'm all for new classes as long as they are not just carbon copy so here is hoping both the BM and captain (is that even coming?) Are not just copy of the current classes they should be a bit different. AION FOR EXAMPLE sucked cause all the classes were just copy of each other . DAOC is and still the best game at having equivalent classes yet they were different and that was 3 classes per .

[Bosshi]

What about "one-sided" mirroring like the tactic "Focused Mending" @ Knight with actually NO pendant at destru side (despite the required battle command is far better then the destru aura).

Don't get me wrong, there are examples like this on BOTH sides. But few of them are too strong to give them only to one side.

[Telen]

The issue with asymmetrical balance is that it doesn't scale well. The more classes and combinations balance issues become magnified. To keep balance you want to reduce the number of variables and that leads to the symmetry people don't want. Adding classes in a asymmetrical system makes balance exponentially more difficult.

Class balance in mmos comes down to pick 2:
Asymmetry
Balance
Content

No mmo has ever managed all 3. Though that is what players for some reason expect.
To have asymmetry and lots of class choice you just have to accept you cant ever have balance.

[Fey]

Well said, Telen. An ability like pounce, or a tactic like run away perform so strongly that they should probably be mirrored. Mirroring however should be seen as a lamentable but necessary part of the balance equation, and to that end should be avoided if possible. For example, a defensive punt/throw from a tank class targeting a fellow ally working in a similar fashion as pounce would be an acceptable mirror.

In addition multiple spec lines should encourage multiple play styles. Lesser used specs should gain access to very powerful abilities, take rift/magnet as prime example. To that end don't give Stabby spec pounce, give an ability to head butt an ally for a medium ally toss. New mechanics like that are what get my butter spread.

[catholicism198]

So squigs are getting pounce ? Are they still going to be ranged or strictly meele if they spec that way. If we don't want strict mirroring then why is Destro to getting a WL? I'm fine without getting the captain in this server we can play both sides and thus if I want to play a Maura I can just play Destro and vice versa.

Is there a post about the Beast Master/Captain? When I saw it out I just assumed it was something Torque was just playing around with "for kicks," and not something that he was planning on implementing.
Squigs getting pounce was/is for Squig Armor in the Stabbin mastery....The whole mastery will get reworked when they manage to get client control.
here's the link:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21848&hilit=squig+armor+rework
It's interesting but...

To that end don't give Stabby spec pounce, give an ability to head butt an ally for a medium ally toss. New mechanics like that are what get my butter spread.

That was actually a Black Orc ability way back when, but was thankfully removed- imagine the endless trolling that would've occurred....punting friendly players into lava or enemy zergs. No thanks.

[Fey]

Make it group only then.