Tanks Guard

[shaggyboomboom]

Your stating that tanks are having issues do to guarding a friendly AND taking additional dmg from enemies. I don't really see that as an issue, mostly due to having played with well geared tanks or at least tanks that know how to gear/position. I'm sorry I offended you, forgot i I was talking with adults.

[Axerker]

Your stating that tanks are having issues do to guarding a friendly AND taking additional dmg from enemies. I don't really see that as an issue, mostly due to having played with well geared tanks or at least tanks that know how to gear/position. I'm sorry I offended you, forgot i I was talking with adults.

I accept your opinion of not seeing as it as an issue, and wish you luck with your endeavors. Apology not accepted due to backhanded comment, stop being childish.

[worldismine]

Guard is fine the way it is.

[shaggyboomboom]

Guard is fine the way it is.

Pretty much, people complaining about guard mostly have bad gear, unoptimal setups, bad healers or are just pugs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Axerker]

Guard is fine the way it is.

Pretty much, people complaining about guard mostly have bad gear, unoptimal setups, bad healers or are just pugs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No one in this post has complained about Guard or asked that it be changed. Points have been brought up about how it specifically works, and that if it were changed (to take tank's mitigation into account), it would be too strong.

[shaggyboomboom]

It's fine as it is, if anything it's gonna get nerfed, but prolly not.

Hopefully this topic will get closed.

[ragafury]

TL;DR: Guard would be much more effective if it used the tank's mitigation on their portion, rather than the ally's. Everyone knows the tank's job is to help keep allies alive. But everyone also knows that Tanks/Healers are much more necessary than DPS (not my words, most everyone else's here - including GMs). You're trading your Tank for a DPS by Guarding, because all that is happening is your Tank is just taking 50% of the health damage, and not 50% of the damage before mitigation, meaning they're going to die as fast as a DPS, specifically to only keep a single DPS alive in their place. Not worth it, in theory, unless you only have 1 DPS left and know you can't kill the enemy on your own.

All that being said, I still Guard, and swap Guards to focused targets. But thinking about it in more detail, Guarding seems like a waste to trade your Tank for a DPS. I think the goal is more to give healers more time to heal up both targets to avoid a DPS getting bursted down instantly, which is what makes Guard worth using, even at the cost of wasting 50% of your tank's health (assuming they have the same health, which they normally will not, just using 50% as a simple placeholder, it'll probably be more like 25-35%). This is why Guard tanks stack Wounds, while ones who don't Guard as often stack Armor or Toughness, since those stats are wasted on damage you take from Guard, and Wounds makes the trade more favorable (50% ally health = 20% your health, etc.).

This is getting a bit out of hand, but still technically within the topic. Sorry for such a long post, and I appreciate the feedback. Overall, I always Guard, and shift Guard to focused targets as often as possible. But, after typing this up and learning that Guard does not factor your own mitigation in, I can definitely see why some tanks choose not to Guard to increase their own survival.

Imo your statement is wrong.
Desired stats depend on the following factors.

A) your accumulated renown rank
B) the gear you have aquired
C) the class you are playing
D) the scale you are playing
E) group comp / buffs avaible from other classes

Giving examples for everything will take huge amount of time but just as a quick thought: fresh off the boat IB and chosen in ruin will have complete other stat priorities (wounds and Crit immunity / initiative vs wounds and mitigation).

Same goes on later with full conq:
E. G. BO and chosen while first is easily wounds capped but looking for toughness and initiative the chosen will still look for wounds while having in both departments reasonable amounts

Majority of this is due to individual stat growth per level on each class and different avaible tactics.

Switching the scale from large to smallscale both classes will opt more for reasonable compromises in between dps and survivability.

As mentioned I could now write on the whole night, but this has to be enough for basic understanding.

There is far more like resistances, avoid and so on, and each is different for every class, "mirrors" are not really "mirrors".

[Axerker]

Spoiler:

TL;DR: Guard would be much more effective if it used the tank's mitigation on their portion, rather than the ally's. Everyone knows the tank's job is to help keep allies alive. But everyone also knows that Tanks/Healers are much more necessary than DPS (not my words, most everyone else's here - including GMs). You're trading your Tank for a DPS by Guarding, because all that is happening is your Tank is just taking 50% of the health damage, and not 50% of the damage before mitigation, meaning they're going to die as fast as a DPS, specifically to only keep a single DPS alive in their place. Not worth it, in theory, unless you only have 1 DPS left and know you can't kill the enemy on your own.

All that being said, I still Guard, and swap Guards to focused targets. But thinking about it in more detail, Guarding seems like a waste to trade your Tank for a DPS. I think the goal is more to give healers more time to heal up both targets to avoid a DPS getting bursted down instantly, which is what makes Guard worth using, even at the cost of wasting 50% of your tank's health (assuming they have the same health, which they normally will not, just using 50% as a simple placeholder, it'll probably be more like 25-35%). This is why Guard tanks stack Wounds, while ones who don't Guard as often stack Armor or Toughness, since those stats are wasted on damage you take from Guard, and Wounds makes the trade more favorable (50% ally health = 20% your health, etc.).

This is getting a bit out of hand, but still technically within the topic. Sorry for such a long post, and I appreciate the feedback. Overall, I always Guard, and shift Guard to focused targets as often as possible. But, after typing this up and learning that Guard does not factor your own mitigation in, I can definitely see why some tanks choose not to Guard to increase their own survival.

Imo your statement is wrong.
Desired stats depend on the following factors.

A) your accumulated renown rank
B) the gear you have aquired
C) the class you are playing
D) the scale you are playing
E) group comp / buffs avaible from other classes

Giving examples for everything will take huge amount of time but just as a quick thought: fresh off the boat IB and chosen in ruin will have complete other stat priorities (wounds and Crit immunity / initiative vs wounds and mitigation).

Same goes on later with full conq:
E. G. BO and chosen while first is easily wounds capped but looking for toughness and initiative the chosen will still look for wounds while having in both departments reasonable amounts

Majority of this is due to individual stat growth per level on each class and different avaible tactics.

Switching the scale from large to smallscale both classes will opt more for reasonable compromises in between dps and survivability.

As mentioned I could now write on the whole night, but this has to be enough for basic understanding.

There is far more like resistances, avoid and so on, and each is different for every class, "mirrors" are not really "mirrors".

I agree with all of your points, but I think you're a bit confused since none of this applies to the topic/responses.

I mentioned people preferring Armor/Toughness over Wounds when considering Guard damage vs Non-Guard damage, just as an example of mitigation. Guard damage goes directly to health (I believe people say it can be Blocked/Parried, so I left those stats out and left the example as solely damage mitigation). So damage you take from Guard is only able to be "reduced" by Wounds (you take the same amount of damage, but it is a lesser part of your total health percentage). Since it is not reduced by Armor/Toughness, those two stats are of no benefit to Guard damage. I didn't say anything about specific class's Guard, and even still, all classes only benefit from Wounds for Guard damage - whether your build is based on Armor, Toughness, Crit Reduction, Disrupt, Block, Parry, or a combination or some/all. This brought up that many people who build their tank around Guarding as their sole purpose choose to go Wounds, because its the only way to survive longer from Guard damage (disregarding possible Block/Parry). For people who don't rely on Guarding as much, and are the spearhead of the WB, they often prefer Toughness or Armor for direct mitigation, since they're are soaking a lot of initial hits from the enemy WB, rather than focusing on Guarding an ally (most still Guard, just not as their primary focus, depending on your role in the WB).

As mentioned, I agree with everything you put, I just think it doesn't relate to the context.

[GodlessCrom]

Pretty sure most WB tanks also prefer wounds because that is only thing which mitigates morale damage. Could be wrong though, havent played tank in a while now.

[Axerker]

Pretty sure most WB tanks also prefer wounds because that is only thing which mitigates morale damage. Could be wrong though, havent played tank in a while now.

True. The only downside to Wounds, pretty much at all (I don't think the soft cap, if there is one, is really easily achievable), is that higher Wounds make heals less effective. But that's just a fair trade-off for the only form of mitigation for Guard/Morale.