Balance forum quality?

[Bozzax]

Does the balance forum yield quality output?

Here are some observations:

1. Problem descriptions genrally are very poor
Proposals are moved and very often the problem description is incorrect and together with heavy moderation (only reply to the OP suggested solution(s)) the output becomes poor.

2. Quality of discussion
Example: Recent SW thread with 5 pages agreeing Assault/hybrid SWs should get new burst abilities equal to mdps on top of their 3-4 ranged dots that can pre applied together with strong core damage boosters.

Spoiler:

Try envision SW OP as a THC followed by Guillotine with +125% damage and +50% crit on top of the dots/ini-debuff/hdebuff.

3. Synergy effects seems to be lost
The format itself is to narrow especially troublesome when you consider synergy.

Spoiler:

Example: AOE Slayers become op end game because order has an extra incoming hbuff (from knight) and extra avoidance (from IB) with op ID/Ramp spam. To my understanding this can never be really discussed in current format.

4. Lack of quality inputs/posters
Sadly the quality of those bothering giving input is at a all time low. I suspect the format puts many off and this is very unfortunate.

5. Lack of direction
It feels random what gets looked at thus there is no "helicopter perspective" on what to balance (maybe this is done elsewhere).

6. Buff mostly/only
I think nerfs are needed as well to succeed and we only see buffs really.

I know it is sort of a gloomy whine post but I suspect balancing forum in its current form may fail to provide good balance. Maybe something can be improved?

[Glorian]

Low quality post are moderated.
Something like +1 or everything is fine posts. You need proof or arguments to state your points. If you don't have them your input is worthless imo.

@Lack of direction:
The balance forum is not for the rebuild of the melee Healer for example. That is something the lead dev decides.
Balance forum is imo for the single stuff abilities left and right.

[anarchypark]

I agree most of posts are about buff.
pretty sure devs are filtering it.
I hope they don't suffer from noise too much.
nothing have made it to real game from proposal iirc.
This proves they're filtering.

I think it's like throwing ideas.
nothing serious.
stupid ideas will be discarded.
it's their burden(?) for balance devs( again feel sry for them )

if you start censoring because some ppl are not smart enough, that path lead to...
elitism? don't know word, something bad

I wanted more open discussions but it will cause too much noise.
rr40 requirement is enough i guess.

[Toldavf]

It's Penrils job as mod to keep the conversation on topic only. He isn't there to censor people and the final verdict of what happens after the conversation is still up to the devs.

[Toldavf]

It's Penrils job as mod to keep the conversation on topic only. He isn't there to censor people and the final verdict of what happens after the conversation is still up to the devs.

I will say though that suggesting nerfs can only come from a person with a 40/40 in that class.

[Alfinnete]

I have seen in several cases users like you have good ideas, good initiatives to be discarded by the administration with these arguments:

That does not interest us.
Go study codes.
Locked topic.

Some people try to create dialogs but sometimes it seems that some adms were part of the warhammer live and the rest we know how it was ...

[Penril]

Don't act like victims. The rules are quite clear and easy to follow. If someone gave you that answer, you probably were derailing the discussion.

[dansari]

2. Quality of discussion
Example: Recent SW thread with 5 pages agreeing Assault/hybrid SWs should get new burst abilities equal to mdps on top of their 3-4 ranged dots that can pre applied together with strong core damage boosters.

Spoiler:

Try envision SW OP as a THC followed by Guillotine with +125% damage and +50% crit on top of the dots/ini-debuff/hdebuff.

Since you quoted my proposal I feel obligated to respond.

Currently, Assault SW is pretty bad. There isn't really much in the tree that's worth picking up, unlike in other trees. So, a proposal was made and a discussion was had regarding its viability as a main tree. The overall consensus was that, no, Assault isn't viable in its current iteration, and changes are needed to make it a more viable option for pvp. This is the entire point of the balance forum -- to provide suggestions to make non-viable trees viable. I support giving players/classes a variety of options so that cookie-cutter builds become less and less "the norm."

And ultimately, the lead developers are the ones who will be working with the suggestions. They can implement as is, make changes, not do anything at all, or go in a completely different direction. All we're doing is providing feedback.

[Dabbart]

When was the last time a balance forum thread actually had an impact or an outcome? That AP drain thread is still waiting for some sort of an outcome...

Personally, I think it's mostly a waste of time. Torque was quite clear in the revolution thread on what Devs will be working on, Balance Forum matters didn't make the list... so I'm not sure how much people should really worry about the "dumb" ideas...

But I do generally enjoy a good arguement... I just wish people would spoiler when they quote someone... the threads get stupidly long to scroll through.

But yea. I agree with OP. The rules on what you can't argue get changed halfway through the thread. Oh, and arguing just gets you barked at:)

[Penril]

Rules don't get changed halfway through the thread. You should only discuss OP's issue/suggestions. If you want to make a suggestion of your own, you make your own proposal in a new thread.