Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

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th3gatekeeper
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#31 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:09 pm

wargrimnir wrote:Dude, we're not out here trying to make money. We don't really care what the mass market demands from games. I'm pretty sure you've been told this a couple times.
I guess it depends on the definition of "make the best game we can" then.
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Marsares
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#32 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:59 pm

TBH, as a lowbie tank you should just grind Ruin (which is easy to get) and go defensive SnB until you're better geared up. A R32 tank in Ruin can do very well, it's not so easy for lowbie DPS or Healers though.
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th3gatekeeper
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#33 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:19 pm

Marsares wrote:TBH, as a lowbie tank you should just grind Ruin (which is easy to get) and go defensive SnB until you're better geared up. A R32 tank in Ruin can do very well, it's not so easy for lowbie DPS or Healers though.
Eh, lowbie healers can do just fine too - you just need to know positioning. Its really DPS classes that will suck with bad gear and < lvl 40 you wont even have all your abilities which will make it harder still.

It is true that 1 of the main problems here is they are not max ranked and not in what we would all deem as "minimum gear" for tier 4.

I guess this begs the question: Wouldnt it be a good idea then to make tier 4 - lvl 40 minimum requirement? So players can go get Ruin, can get all their abilities, etc? I cant recall now when/if this was the case but this might also get more people invested into tiers 1-3.

I still advocate for a better currency exchange from lower -> higher tier so its not 5:1.. This is why people want to grind out tier 4 and not really play in tier 2 or 3....(I know 2/3 is merged btw).

You could spend a ton of time in t2/t3 and end up with like 250 emblems of each, in the end this gives you like 300 tier 3 emblems = 60 tier 4 emblems for Merc, which doesnt even buy you a chest piece.

If, on the other hand, tiers 2/3 spanned up to level 35 or 39 and put tier 4 as a minimum of 36, or 40 even, and the currency exchange was something closer to 2:1 for each tier (meaning 2 lower = 1 higher tier). Which would make
8 tier 1 = 4 tier 2
4 tier 2 = 2 tier 3.
2 tier 3 = 1 tier 4.

Point being, it would make lower level players feel like their grind to lvl 40 wasnt "wasted" and you would likely see people take their time to level IN PVP, so that by the time they hit 40, they not only would have Ruin, but might have several pieces of Anni/Merc gear and be considered "competitive" and would ALSO have decent RR level too. This STILL isnt the "BIS" Domi/Conq gear so I dont see why we need to make it more gated.... there is still a "gap" and a "gear grind" to accomplish, so non of it is free "give me" mode....

Anyways, im rambling now, but that is something I would atleast explore/entertain to both make T4 universally more competitive as well as make leveling more enjoyable and discourages "boosting" to tier 4 as you could get renown up AND emblems/medallions for Merc/Anni gear and with Ruin (and hopefully beastlord coming back) have a good shot at being "competitive in tier 4" relatively quickly
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Collateral
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#34 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 pm

This might start a serious derailing, but I agree that T4 should be minimum rank 40. I proposed this a long time ago in some thread about rvr I think.
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Tesq
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#35 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:14 pm

What ppl are trying to tell ya with not so good manner is that less performing comp can work if you are at least on par with renown and gear.

On the other side try to work with bad comp + sub rr 40 characters is too hard

Anyway base set to try win any organized stuff is ruin so can't do much with out the min set required for t4.
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th3gatekeeper
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#36 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:15 pm

Collateral wrote:This might start a serious derailing, but I agree that T4 should be minimum rank 40. I proposed this a long time ago in some thread about rvr I think.
Well, its kinda a derail but kinda not too... Its addressing the gear disparity issue.

The question asked in the OP (indirectly in a sense) is why is there so much gear disparity. In reality his question adds "between a lvl 3X and 40 players".

Several answers were given and in his title it asks " Anything to be done?"

So we have a few pages in and now answering that question "what can be done".

The simple answer: re-adjust the tier levels so that 3Xs dont fight t4 geared lvl 40s... Its just not a fair fight in the slightest without MINIMALLY Ruin gear. I forget level requirements of Ruin gear, I think 36 might be the highest for the final piece? So it seems MINIMALLY to me, that 36 would be tier 4 minimum, even 40 would be a good minimum due to abilities being unlocked by then as well....

So what ideally WOULD be the level/tiers?
Tier 1: 1-11
Tier 2/3: 12-35
Tier4: 36+

Is one option that might work. OR another:
Tier 1: 1-15
Tier 2/3: 16-39
Tier 4: 40

Stuff like this....
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Tesq
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#37 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:03 am

More than t4 there is a ranking disparity all across tiers with a bad design that alwas push you to play the more you can near tbe max level -1 of that tier due the need to unlock key skill + tactics

10 -> guard, charge , ress + first tactic

20 -> group heals, chalenge, anti snare/root ( lv 18) + second tactic

Etc

Instead learn the most powerfull skill or rather than powerfull the key skills for that tier before exit from the tier you shoukd get them mid way of the tier.

Exemple group heals etc should be learnt at rank 15 since t2 fights are always decided from who have faster the healers with group heals and who dont.... And i could go on but the tactics alredy are enough to force you to rank exp first and level up lather ( may be intended or not anyway not fit well)

This have all to do with tiers separation anyway, if

T1 is 1-15
T2 would be 15-25
T3 would be 25_35
T4 would be 35-40

Then the currently skill learning curve would be ok where all key skill and tactic are learnef at 10, 20, 30, 40, and look the rvr set would all be mid way sets, so this open up also pve mix build + also if you enter at 35 in t4 you can farm immidiatly ruin and full it for 36 and you are ready to join t4.

But till either the learning curve dont get fix or the rank x tier is changed it's impossible have balance till you are 40 rank because higher set in difference mean both gear and renown difference and especially 1 tactic slot more( which is alredy huge), the if you add a heavy difference in key skill then you have 4x the difference. Between any 20 and 30 player for exemple( or 30 vs 40).

Suppose deboolster fix stat difference with gear. You still have renown and key skill ( and tactic difference) which is 3x grade lower on total of your class stuff, and this is not fix till you are 30, no mid way in most case.

So yes there is a progression problem for sure especially in the skill progression and is not for sure restricted to t4
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Sulorie
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#38 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:08 am

All the theory crafting what ideal tier brackets would be and all overlook the main difference compared to live on this server.
Overlapping tier brackets
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Aurandilaz
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Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#39 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:48 am

yeah, as Torq above said, the experience is what newer players lack mostly, not just gear or levels.
I've been leveling my new BW in T4 past weeks, just because I'm rank 31 or 34 in scs doesn't mean I can't be top dmg or cannot do decent amounts of killblows. A BW in T3 pve Mayhem set doing well in early T4, surprisingly not that hard; if you got years of experience in this game.
Similarly I managed to waltz my way as a defensive SnB lowbie BG a few months ago, it's easypeasy if you know that being an underleveled character makes you weak, so you go full deftard and still end up helping your team well enough.
Lowbie SM, again doable, don't go full suicidal mode but invest into a good shield, your healers will thank you.
I even managed to perform well enough on a rank 35 sorc in TUP bomb wbs, but then again one could argue I got carried by the team. :D

That being said, some classes are definitely harder in T4 without proper levels and renown, melee healing is sadist-mode as enemy rdps just burst you down from distance. Even mdps is kinda challenging, until you get full Ruin at least and can survive a few seconds longer in combat than in Devastator.
I have noticed that for rdps and tanks, the bolster is enough to make T4 as lowbie tolerable, but mdps, you just lack too much of the dmg-burst that full rank 40 chars in better gear have.

Still, you will eventually notice that gear matters less than good old experience.

anarchypark
Posts: 1502

Re: Gear disparity: Anything to be done?

Post#40 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:52 am

when you can't defeat enemy with brawl, use strategy, outsmart them.
500-100 is better than 500-0.
check my SC summary link and play objectives.
you have friends. 4players dedicated to objectives often give good result.
even against premade.
if you call it PvE, previous tips are answer to follow. better gear, follow meta.
Last edited by anarchypark on Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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