Population

[lilsabin]

What I always wanted to ask, is there any form of RoR marketing or PR strategy to rise popularity of this server? I am pretty sure there must be more than a 1000 ppl out there that played this game in the past or are Warhammer enthusiasts that would like to dive into some sort of Warhammer adventure which is not 40k/Vermintide RTS/FPS and be able to share it with like-minded ppl. What does the community do to help this server to increase the population? Search all WH related videos on YT and comment with link to this website? What else can the individual do to share knowledge that RoR actually exists?

loooool "marketing" ...ok , i am out

[freshour]

Apologies for the multiple population posts. Common sense acquired!!!

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

Good player or not i haven't found a single player that is satisfied going around with Ruin/Merc/Annhi. Every single one of them wants the BiS, and do not want to settle for entry level sets like Ruin (which also doesn't come with different stats for 2h tanks and there are many 2h tanks players)

The point i'm trying to make is that we're looking back too much, on the old-style MMO based too much on gearing your character. While progression and gear are pillars of MMOs and should never be removed, basing an entire game around it is also unhealthy for the game, and we're seeing it now.

Gearing a character (if the gearing pace isn't as slow as it is right now) is fun for the first time you farm the gear set, because it's new, you have something to keep you occupied and all that. And then? what about after you're finished gearing your main? you play a little, have fun for a while and then get bored because there's nothing to do. Some roll an alt or 2 (like me) and quit, others just quit the game directly because the game isn't that alt-friendly and maybe feel that even after rolling an alt, the same issue will still be there. Nothing to do after gearing them.

And those are the players that have the time/patience to farm the gear, many are so discouraged by the insane pricing that they quit the game shorty after because they have nothing to look forward to, and this has been seen by everyone by how the peak of players quickly disappeared shortly after at the release of Conq-Domi.

What i think happened (might be completely wrong) is that the Devs saw that many players quit after gearing their characters when Annhi-Merc was BiS and thought that a more distant carrot would keep the playerbase intact a longer time. While putting more distance between the player and their reward usually works, it went way way way too far, resulting in more players being scared away than actually staying a longer time before quitting again. The fact that the issue of not having anything to do after completing this insane grind is still present is also another issue. This was just a bandaid fix that solved nothing imo.


Off-topic comment You Mentioned WoW, Scatterthewinds, but WoW basically deleted gear from pvp. a freshly dinged character has only around a 5-6% stats disadvantage compared to a greatly geared characters. Ofc other forms of progression were added (Artifact and Honor Talents for pvp) but that doesn't have anything to do with gear itself.

Spoiler:

Face it:
Unless you are playing in a proper group and face a proper group gear is neglible.

Most of those going full tryhard; those that want to get the gear at all costs, are those that pug and will see pretty much no difference in power whatsoever once they get it, unless they manage to be up against other pugs 24/7.
Every encounter with even a lackluster-to-medicore group - let alone a proper group (in green gear) and just common numbers in ORvR - will have them spiral back into burnout again, but that time around it won't be gear or grind they complain about, but balance.
[Abbd.: Note: The latter takes effect if the gear is grinded with the expectation of it turning one into a god, rather than it helping even the odds for your group/setup.]

Its one of the greatest missconceptions about this game ~ on live, yes, there was a significant powercreep, on RoR (!= live) there is no tangible, effective (= math, not perception based) powercreep.

Composing a proper group and coordinating it completly outdoes every bit of stats a pug could acquire - if pugs aren't concerned, well, there is not a single proper premade around that relies on gear the way pugs believe it to be the case.
Considering that the most brutal compositions require high RR, I am amazed that no one complains about RR-gating on mastery points and the edge RR gives otherwise ~ that, too, would be next in line, either after or simultaneously to balance, once the gear-bubble pops.

Keep in mind, other old-fashioned MMOs revolve around PvE, more than anything else - no amount of grind in these games would ever be even remotely as much frowned upon as the tiniest bit of grind in PvP games, considering that players don't have an opportunity to theorize about the cause of their demise; players in those games cannot draw the conclusion: "I died, so my opponent had to be better geared than I am, there is no other way that could happened otherwise, yada yada. I need to get the gear, and once I get it I can repay the favor - guranteed!", as their opponent is some garbage, scripted and never-changing NPC.

TLDR: The problem at display is rooted far deeper. The devs had to pick their poison, and ultimately played by the textbook (< rambled on about that in another thread) - can't blame them either way.

[th3gatekeeper]

I dont understand people's dislike of t4. T4 is where the character you created can actually be used to the full capacity it was designed for. The medals and emblems are just the bonus, the gameplay itself is the reward. In the other tiers the gameplay is the chore and the exp is the reward. Its a night and day difference.

People dislike t4 because in order to take a single piece of gear it takes ages and don't feel on par with everyone else.
The "gameplay itself is the reward" only starts after the gearing stage, when your character is at full gear and on the same level playing field as everyone else.

Currently the server is focusing only on the gearing stage of the game and not on the "the game itself is the reward", which leads to many quitting after a while they have all their BiS (which takes an insane amount of time) and many others quitting shortly after trying to get some gear, because the carrot is way too far for most players.

I think decreasing the gear prices and adding cosmetic gear/mounts/mini-pets/titles to buy with medals/emblems would help the server a lot. People invest a disgusting amount of time and effort to buy cosmetic items that makes their character look better, or just for the sake of collecting stuff. A good example of this is WoW arenas, where most players try to push their 2k rating not for the sake of the achievement or the rating itself, but simply for the elite gear set. Honor levels achieve the same thing too.

With these changes i think the server population will also rise, maybe not by a huge amount, but it's still something that might attract some new players and make old players that got bored because of the grind return.

This is really spot on. I also think more gear choice would be cool as well. Right now you basically have 1-2 "best" sets and yes, we can mix set bonuses like we grab x pieces of genesis, x pieces beastlord and x pieces of conq or whatever you want... But at the end of the day, the actual "gear choice" is rather limiting...

Primarily due to set bonuses being far too good. If I am weighing 2 non set pieces with 2 set pieces the two set pieces get an extra 66stat? Nothing is going to compare to that...

My point being. We need LESS vertical "gear improvement" and more horizontal/lateral options.

I remember when t2 And t3 were the max. Many players rocked influence gear, influence weapons because they were often better than the sets (sometimes due to sets not being at the tiers level cap etc.)

But this was FUN. You felt like you had more "uniqueness" to your Building... Right now I log in and most players I inspect are running largely the same pieces of gear because there is a "BIS Tier" and not much can compete with it...

But to your point as well. Cosmetics are FAR undervalued by the DEV team. I probably wouldn't even attach "power" items to RVRzone locks but a grueling cosmetic currency grind.

This allows newer players and alts the ability to get the gear they want to feel competitive (especially if tons of best tier items were all considerable) and then to LOOK bad ads, they might want cosmetic rewards...

I have a friend who has done nearly every PQ and every leveling influence chapter just to check cosmetics

[Darosh]

[...]
My point being. We need LESS vertical "gear improvement" and more horizontal/lateral options.
[...]
But to your point as well. Cosmetics are FAR undervalued by the DEV team. I probably wouldn't even attach "power" items to RVRzone locks but a grueling cosmetic currency grind.
[...]

Well, we haven't reached a critical level of vertical progression yet, if the 'Rare Fortune' set is an indicator of how the Dev team plans to handle new sets I am not to worried about it. In any case the chances of them actually introducing powercreep are slim to non-existant; I doubt that they'd ever risk to repeat Mythics greatest mistakes (e.g.: gating off the game for new players entirely with too hefty of increments).

But yeah, horizontal/lateral is likely the best bet - however itemization isn't particularly easy with 12 classes, its pretty easy to enable (gamebreaking) extremes (e.g.: wounds heavy sets for Slayers).

However, I'd kill for cosmetic gear - so would many, I figure. All things considered, cosmetic gear has countless times; in countless environments, been proven to make for the best incentive and the safest approach to handling longterm progression.
Then again, there aren't enough unique skins for every class to satisfy the demand and to account for everyone (e.g.: Slayers and their 50 shades of run-over-squirrel, chains and hotpants); to prevent community outrage - neither will there be tools or resources to craft new ones either, atleast not in the near future.

[flintboth]

I have try to play the RvR T2/T3 this morning (another morning*), we was not enough to rank the keep so no RvR and I don't know if one of us could buy or take a ram.
As always I have try to recruit players on /T3, /advice, /5; just 5 players online for the RvR T3 this morning, 5 Destruction players, no Order.
Is not possible to run the RvR with low population so every 5 minutes one player (bored) disconnect and one player log in...etc... No RvR...

The low gain of Renown is a problem too, on live server the RR gain was double than the XP gain; Today you can't double your RR gain and this is not a good thing for those who wana up their characters for the T4 on the low Tiers RvR.
I mean the interest (Game challenge not in counter) to level up on the RvR/Scenario T2/T3 was the good gain of RR, to come nice geared for the T4 RvR/Scenario.
Today, for a low level character <31, it is more interesting to level up his XP fast on the PvE than running the RvR T2/T3 and later (when level 31) join the T4 RvR/Scenario to win some Renown points.
Make double Renown possible for low level characters on low Tiers will bring more sense to level up his characters on the T2/T3 RvR/Scenario and more fair for the characters coming on the T4 RvR, I think...

Currently, the population is low because there was only the T4 few months ago.
New players coming in was just food for old characters nice geared and grouped together...
How do you expect a new player who are joining a Warhammer game, join a Realm (a brotherhood I mean), can accept to be only food for the T4 ?
There is no real Warhammer Conlict here, just some little lock without connection, without operation intelligence, make a real Conflict to include New players.
Create some simple mechanics so that the players are aware of belonging to the same Realm beyond their Tier and encourage them to work together if they want by a simple anouncement and a little ticks recognizing their facts (the lock of all the T1 / T2 / T3 / T4 Dwarf maps... The lock of two T1 or T2/T3 map at the same time for example...).
We will have more players online if as promised (for September/October) they make a nice RvR design for the low Tiers, I mean a RvR who give to the new players/low characters some nice Warhammer game experience but especially a nice gear and a nice Renown to get in the T4 RvR with some good chance to have some decent fight, battle. Some ROCK I mean.
Without new blood there is no game, no war.
The T1 Reboot, the new design RvR, is nice and more important it is a step for the New Players and toward the New players.

Give more importance (in term of the Warhammer Conflict T1/T2/T3/T4, in term of balance...) to the new players, to the low RvR Tiers.
Include them in the big Conflict, the Warhammer Game, why we join this game.

[anarchypark]

enjoy the game and gears will follow.

what was your play after full anni/merc when it was final set?
had you enjoyed game itself? or went to alt?
maybe both? alt grind is kinda fun. grind is not entirely enemy.
and it's pvp grind. pvp can't be boring.

or do you play it boring way? mindless following play?

simple zerg was enough to get anni/merc.
conq/domi definitely not.

current rvr system have rooms for main force and small scale both.
use it well

[Oldschool]

Why we have a Database full of Items what nobody Needs? AH full of stuff just trash.
In the end all go for the same Items what a class recomends and nobody Needs the blue Drops anymore, everbody wants the sets and the issued Items what is recommended for the class you Play.
If T3 was the Endlevel, there was more variety in the Items you can use.

And the questions: Why we Need Items with stats (the stats differenece i mean)? Just give us some Stats (like we have it right now) per Renown Points should be enough. The difference then is not so much that you feel pissed off when an Veteran with full set of whatever kills you in a second and you dont have to grind items and beeing the looser until you have the equal sets, just grind Renown Points and make PvP !!! Maybe also in blue and green Items. Cause Items should be there for the LOOK and not for the Stats. Stats should more or less only come from Renown Points and should be not so much that you feel totaly crapy if you dont have RR50+.
Just give some small Set Bonus to the sets, not more. Rest should be equal to blue items.

Get the Player back into RoR with the Idea of "log in, get on and make PvP for Fun with equal chances for the moment youre logged in for everybody".
The days of mmorpgs where you have to grind items for beeing able to "rock" are over, People dont want this, they want to log in and Play! Easy come - Easy go - not a item grind forever. Or what you think how many of the current Players are there in a year to have the Conquerer Set grinded? Only the Nerds. The other give up.

Or waaay better: Let us lose a item when we get killed! This makes PVP and Group Play mooore interesting and we have to be carefull what we do or not. Just a funny idea to give us "a real fearfull" Moment in pvp..... ( like the hardcore Server of Ultima online many years ago...)

For myself: Iam getting back my high Level chars from T4 into T1 and T2/T3 with debolster, what is great. I dont Need BIS or Com Sets for having fun. I just can buy my items from AH or make some PQ to get some and then iam fine, no Medal grind forever and waaaaay more fun in T1-T3 pvp then in T4.
And another Thing: Appearance is important - it is a Fantasy mmorpg !!!
Look and Feel different ! Not with the stats, with the appearance!
A lot of player grind there T1 Lairs for having the different look of the items, hats, weapons etc.

[Marsares]

Well, people quit for different reasons I guess - some valid, some not so valid perhaps. Summer-time, nice weather and BBQ certainly doesn't help either with population, that's the case for every single game. The thing to bear in mind is that the Devs performed a small miracle with bringing this game back to life. I can't get my head around how they did it and I can't thank them enough as yet again I'm able to play the game that I enjoyed most.

However, from a personal perspective it feels like development has ground to a halt. This may seem counter-intuitive as we do get patch after patch and each of them has a lot of changes in it, but virtually none of them have fundamentally changed the game for good in quite some time.

I am sure there's a lot of work ongoing behind the scenes that I'm not aware of, but with my limited knowledge it feels to me that without the patcher fully rolled out (which is being internally tested I understand), the ability to positively influence the game is just very limited. What we need are map changes, proper class balancing and changes to the RvR meta. Most of those it seems require the patcher. Without that, what personally irks me the most is:

- Classes have been balanced a bit further, but you're still largely reliant on the "usual suspects" in your compositions and the same classes still generally miss out.
- Keep takes remain a very static and boring event due to their layouts.
- Zone takes have become a very odd affair where you get some BOs in order to get a ram, generally ignore the BOs whilst you zerg the keep and then in the majority of cases spend an eternity sitting on BOs whilst more often than not the opposing side already has logged off or x-realmed.
- I've ran around in the same old RvR lakes since closed beta, things get rather dull after some such a long time.
- X-realming is a massive turn-off, especially with a server population where a small percentage of x-realmer can totally sway the tide of the battle.
- The RvR meta is just dull... it's about building up to M2, and then dumping it. Yes, there's obviously a lot more to it than just that, but in a nut-shell that sums it up more or less. That was fun back in the day, but seriously got stale.

However, it also feels to me that some odd design choices have been made:

- Asian style grind for gear: as others eluded to, the grind to get BiS gear is real. Of course, you do not need it as Ruin is sufficient to be competitive in most instances, but people do want BiS gear. BiS shouldn't be a give-away and free-for-all, but with every release of new gear the requirements are getting more and more ridiculous. It's feels to me that the Devs knew there wasn't anything new on the horizon, so they dangle the carrot ever further and further away in order to keep people "engaged".
- The RNG nature of gear: contribution largely feels odd at times and then it gets complemented with a completely RNG roll. It's RNG behind RNG, complemented with Asian style medal requirements. And when you do get a gold bag, chances are you already have that piece.
- Forcing people into t2/3: all power-level spots have been pretty much taken out. I understand that the Devs want to stimulate a healthy population in T2/3, but let's be honest.... this server doesn't have the population for it. Now it's achieving the opposite effect as it actually turns people off to level up a character, especially new un-guilded players.

Given the above I've massively cut back my gaming time. I play when our guild has a WB night, but that's about it. Until the patcher is there and the fundamental issues are being addressed, I don't really see a reason to play. And from having spoken to quite some few people, they feel the same.

[freshour]

If it helps the cause, I don't like vertical progression and I think tons of amazing cosmetic sets are a terrible idea. *wink wink* Do your worst!