Population

[Bozzax]

A rr80 will absolutly stomp rr40s there is 0 fight

Love how ppl pretend "all is well" tm

[Arteker616]

When level 32 cap was implemented in t3 there were no major updates for over 8 months (prep T4). Devastator took around 4 weeks of casual play to get. During this time the population stayed around 900-1100. Stating that server population is impacted due to the majority of players having no more gear to grind for is proven nonsense (and the majority were rr capped as well!).

Its stuff like lowering base income, but not taking out extremes increasing rift between rich/old and poor/new players. Forcing people to play a certain aspect of the game they dont prefer just to be able to attain equipment that facilitates a certain specialisation. Adding extreme and unnessesary RNG is overall character improvement. Adding content into this project that further seperates an already decreasing population (this one did not even surprise me anymore tbh).

False , devastator took at worst 2 weeks since population was high and kill quests yield needed extra medallions and reduced value of devastator was not insane , during the time t3 lasted i was able to lvl up 7 chars and get it for them with ease(was the beggining of my althocism on ror).
Aswell t3 was way nice to mdps than t4 since ranged domination was not that big , so u saw more diversity.

Aswell there was alot of improvement in rvr mechanics going off during that time. like aoe going trough walls , and alot of serious glitches.

Reduction in merc did come and helped alot of a tired population . then ddos come, and the insane prizes on enw sets combined with **** bag system > down again in numbers.

[th3gatekeeper]

Remove solo queing for sc's completely. The mindset this creates is toxic. Tie sc's back to the campaign. Only allow full groups of 6 to que. This will encourage player's to try to form a group and gets player's communicating with each other which is a good thing.

Soloer's / lonewolf's have ORvR.

<3

@thegatekeeper: just greatly reduce the rewards from the pug scenario and greatly increase the rewards of other scenarios/group scenarios. Get people utilising the /5, going on comms (or not), playing together. Communal aspect of MMO. Strengthen ties. Stop catering to solo players. I know dudes who will come on for 3 hours a week and still ensure they find at least a few people to play with. I know NA is different, but I still see more than enough people ungrouped in scenarios that could - if they wanted - group up.

See, this is what I was trying to accomplish but rather than "NERFING" things (like PUG rewards) I would rather see them BUFF things (like the 6 man rewards).

I do agree, there should be more push to group up and play together, however sometimes people DONT want this (again I reference Soft Touch Systems vs Hard touch). I think the PUG SC has a place in the lineup and serves an important role. Sometimes you just wanna log in and smash people. You dont want to have to find a group, set up coms, assist, etc. Sometimes you dont want to "try hard" but just have fun.

So this was the idea. INCREASE the rewards for the 6 man only SCs - encouraging more premades to run SCs. The REAL kicker would be a leaderboard. I doubt they can add this though. Something that tracked like # of 6 man SC maps won. Could do the same for RVR - leaderboard with # of keep takes. etc. But I highly doubt this would ever happen.

But again, rather than nerfing things to FORCE people to play 1 way, why not instead ENCOURAGE them via better rewards? Take the 6 man maps. Maybe make it 20 emblems per win and 6 minimum for a loss - so your still better off 6 manning and losing than doing the other SCs.

This way you cover all your bases:
Soft Touch Social Systems - PUG SC
Hard Touch Social Systems - RVR and 6man SC
Short time play sessions - SCs
Long time play sessions - SCs/RVR

You hit all bases. Removal of PUG SC, means that it isolates anyone who has short time play session AND Soft Touch.

Right now, we have the PUG SC (which is sometimes good, sometimes bad) but if RVR isnt going, there feels like not much to do... so trying to re-motivate the Hard Touch/Short Time Play sessions would be good for the game IMO in the area of 6 man SCs.

Also a better RVR system would work and I guve kudos to the DEVs for tryin the new T1 system but from feedback I have heard, and my own experience, I am more leery of this new system than excited....

[Darosh]

To all things T3:
Meta progression, in the form of server development, in T3 > individual progression in T4.

[Nefarian78]

At the end of the day, the Devs have been the creator of their own downfall there. If you make scenarios fun and engaging, then it doesn't matter as much if you lose. After all, you win some, you lose some. But if you introduce Asian style grinds for gear and players are looking at 1,500+ medals for their scenario gear, then every loss matters, and if you're unguilded or in a not-so good guild then a PUG scenario will generally speaking yield better results.

When the only reason to play is certain gear, which isn't even required to compete, then yes, it might be demotivating.

You fail to understand the human psyche. Even if the best gear isn't necessarily required to compete, people want it nevertheless. It's human nature. Yet if you put it so far out of reach for casual / PUG players, then don't be surprised if they take the easy way.

You can easily turn the question around: if the the BiS gear is not needed to compete, then why is it gated behind 1,500 odd medals? If the game truly was that much fun and a lot of exciting development is on the horizon, why are Asian grind-style carrots needed in order to keep people in-game?

Bless everything in this post. THAT is the issue the game is having right now. After you complete your gear there's NOTHING to do, at all other than gearing an alt (which many do not even care about). We need something to do after gearing our characters, you can't just invent a stupid long grind and then have nothing to do after finishing it.

This is an old game, but we need to look to the current times, with a completely different kind of player compared to then.The MMO we have now offer tons of useless/cosmetic/for-fun-items, with the idea of making you spend time for them, without it feeling you're forced to farm them.

There's nothing you can say about not being forced to farm the new gear even if it's only a 3-4% increase in your overall power most players still feel comepelled to farm it, and when you realize you're never going to take it (unless you play 12hrs a day for an entire month) many either quit directly or play for fun for a while and then quit shorty after.

[Sulorie]

when you realize you're never going to take it (unless you play 12hrs a day for an entire month) many either quit directly or play for fun for a while and then quit shorty after.

You make it sound like playing for fun is the slightest evil of two not enjoyable options. When gear is your sole motivation, you play the wrong game. Live T1 was free to play and very busy with people, who played there forever or just had twinks. They had no gear progression and rr was capped and still they kept playing.

[flintboth]

@ Peter, Nothing drastic just a mark of realism in confrontation, loss and gain, what you gain comes from something... from what your enemy has lost, a rapport of containing, "I take you this...".
This relationship or balance does not exist at the moment, we can create it with this loss of RR and XP, even a very small loss (nothing who stop or penalize); This allows to create a game relationship (what you took me I will take it back to you...)

Curently this system is encouraging collectioner behaviour and players who was looking to Warhammer Online for the RvR, PvP and GvG are always wining RR + XP points, loser or winner, there is no game for them.
I really think the progression characters to be intensitiv must be a player challenge, not to hard but like for a healer who are trying to keep a health bar at a good level.
It's a hard change for all because now we are always hungry for RR and XP but always winning are not a good thing and don't create challenge for the players, the real players can be really bored about this if they are permanent supplied and some or many finaly leave.
And are staying in game only fan base and collectioner.

We need a good system progression but players must assume their RR and XP bar and the battle.

For those who think, players will leave with a change like this or avoid the battle, I don't think, they leave because (in my opinion) there is no real challenge in progression, there is no brotherhood in Realm, there is no cogs and wheels featuring the reality of the conflict, I need to feel the Warhammer conflict, Destruction invade the Order lands; and to feel it in all Tiers if something great happen in the conflict progression.
To work for, just for an anoucement or a little tick but I need to have a recognition when a part of my enemy Realm is getting down;
Like I have say if the Realm of Dwarves disappear, all their maps are locked by the Destruction Realm, I want to heard Gork or Mork say " you a bad Goblin ! Well done! ", and a little tick (nevermind +1 RR) or a little bonus (+10 health) and see a malus (-10 toughness) above the Glorian head, to laugh at him !

[freshour]

To be fair... I don't think 6v6 will ever be "popular" unless subjugators could drop, and you had a shot at winning like 40-50 emblems. Only then would it get VERY competitive. But lets be real... we will never get 40-50 emblems for an SC lol.

[Nefarian78]

when you realize you're never going to take it (unless you play 12hrs a day for an entire month) many either quit directly or play for fun for a while and then quit shorty after.

You make it sound like playing for fun is the slightest evil of two not enjoyable options. When gear is your sole motivation, you play the wrong game. Live T1 was free to play and very busy with people, who played there forever or just had twinks. They had no gear progression and rr was capped and still they kept playing.

Playing for fun never lasts long, you NEED something to look forward to. I'm not one of those players that is playing only for gear (i'm the opposite of that, tbh) but after a while of not progressing my characters the game simply stopped being fun for me because i didn't have incentive to play (not going to farm 12hrs a day for a month for a set, sorry my time is better spent elsewhere at that point)

[th3gatekeeper]

when you realize you're never going to take it (unless you play 12hrs a day for an entire month) many either quit directly or play for fun for a while and then quit shorty after.

You make it sound like playing for fun is the slightest evil of two not enjoyable options. When gear is your sole motivation, you play the wrong game. Live T1 was free to play and very busy with people, who played there forever or just had twinks. They had no gear progression and rr was capped and still they kept playing.

And you make it sound like playing in t4 is fun. I can be with a full warband coordinated but half the time I try to do RvR it isn't fun. Heck even today I have more fun alting in t1 than playing t4...

Also didn't you just prove his point? T1 was fun and people played without the far off "carrot"... So why have one in t4?

You can't argue both sides. If it's fun, no need for gear gap and carrot. If it's not fun, you need gear gap and carrot to keep people playing...

I actually think gear gap CAUSES peopl to not have fun. I have to catch myself many times in this because I'll do RvR, and get a top contr. Spot and not get a bag and get mad and feel like I wasted time. I never felt that way in t3 or t2 or t1.. because I didn't feel like I "got screwed" or am "missing out" on.something. I did it for the sheer sake of taking the zone.... gear grind distracts from the game and GIVES a false goal so when.people get it, they then think "what now"... If playing the game was the goal. You wouldn't see this issue....i don't remember as much attrition in t2 or t3... People leveled alts. Personally I feel discouraged to play alts because I don't have gear I want on my.main atm. In t2 and t3 I had all I wanted on.multiple toons and was willing to play whatever for the sake of playing...