Population

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Kali14
Banned
Posts: 340

Re: Population

Post#131 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:31 pm

There is few players who always want lead WB and nobody except them can't do that. And most people don't like this so they stay often AFK in WC insteed creat own OPEN WB. Not important does this few leaders are good or bad (they are bad), people just don't like them.

There is not open WB where normal player can join and play because leadership is reserved for few people and other players are not interesy work with them.


PS: Drop your leadership and give a cheance to young wolfs.

(

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freshour
Banned
Posts: 835

Re: Population

Post#132 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:54 pm

Personal Opinion:

If RVR rewards such as subjugator weps and genesis pieces were able to be reached progressively with some means to an end regardless of RVR performance ie. How many supplies did you run? Did you hit the lord? Take a BO? Fight on a BO? Total kills? And then the huge one.. time in the lake...

I think people would care less about doing what they "think" will get them bags and have a lot more fun just being in the lakes. I know in T3 when it was the cap, people did RVR to get the influence items - they were actually useful to a lot of classes specifically belt/helmet/cloak slots and even for some the weapons weren't bad. Easiest way to get them - you just lock a zone and try and kill people in that zone as fast you possibly can. Zones flipped regularly and didn't or rarely ever - dragggggggggggged on and on and on for hours and hours and hours (I said personal opinion, don't hate).

If in some way/shape/form subjugator and genesis were obtainable even if it was as far fetched as the 2 pc sets from seals - I think people would be more likely to go out in the lakes and do less "try hard to get the bags bro" style of play and more "how can we lock this zone faster" play - ie warbands... fighting... grouping up!!!!!!!

Everyone is so caught up in getting bags that literally never drop. Sure the completely random BO timers that will give a group of 20 people a 30 seconds timer while 5 guys have to wait like 5-8 minutes (on occasion, obviously it has a tremendous amount of variation to it) is adding to the cake but I swear people spend less time having fun and enjoying grouping up and way more time trying to pinpoint how to get a stupid bag lol... I bet if bags were based on faster locks, we'd see massive influx of warbands trying to lock a zone insanely fast. Or if you got more RR for the amount of people in a warband, I bet we'd see bigger warbands/groups playing together.

But when you have a higher pop EU and a low pop NA - unless you can tweak the rules depending on timezones it is prettttttttty near impossible to make a system that functions ideally for both.

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1072

Re: Population

Post#133 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:59 pm

All I do is play for fun, Bragging rights, and work on my racial group projects. Playing for gear in any game will leave you disappointed once your journey is done. Playing for RR will leave you disappointed once your journey is done.

With that said I think meaningless carrots which are reset every month or week would be a good idea. Like leaderboards or top 5 guilds with the highest kills have their banner's displayed in the city which is reset every month or week. It should be celebrating the team and not the individual.

I still think this is a good idea.
footpatrol2 wrote:Remove solo queing for sc's completely. The mindset this creates is toxic. Tie sc's back to the campaign. Only allow full groups of 6 to que. This will encourage player's to try to form a group and gets player's communicating with each other which is a good thing.

Soloer's / lonewolf's have ORvR.
To be clear. I think the 6 man only SC is also toxic and brings in the wrong mentality that this game is purely based on 6 man's and 6 man's need to be catered too and balance needs to be restructured around 6 man's. I think it was a mistake that the pug only Sc was implemented. I think it was a mistake that 6 man only SC's were implemented. None of this was a permanent addition to AoR and creates community division.

I agree that mythic's implementation of how SC's were tied to the campaign in AoR had hideous problems. It is still a good idea thou. Tieing SC's to the campaign. How it contributed was the issue, not that it was part of the campaign. Having SC's untied to the campaign indirectly destroy's realm pride.

To conclude, this is a niche game. It will not satisfy everyone's wants, and thats ok, stop trying too. Recognize what this game is good at and run. Exaggerate your strengths as opposed to mitigating your weaknesses.

There is a mountain of games out there desperately trying to cater to casual player's. Those games are just flat out better games for the time investment for casual player's then this game. If you want to solo / lonewolf it in a game that is heavily group based have at it but don't ask for the game to be catered to you. There is not a lot of games out there that require this amount of inter-group dependence in its game mechanics. I would go so far and say this game is fairly unique in this respect. Player's that like organization/coordination in this type of setting don't have a lot of options. Casual player's do have a ton of options that are in this setting.

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Marsares
Posts: 364

Re: Population

Post#134 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:54 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Nefarian78 wrote:when you realize you're never going to take it (unless you play 12hrs a day for an entire month) many either quit directly or play for fun for a while and then quit shorty after.
You make it sound like playing for fun is the slightest evil of two not enjoyable options. When gear is your sole motivation, you play the wrong game. Live T1 was free to play and very busy with people, who played there forever or just had twinks. They had no gear progression and rr was capped and still they kept playing.
Exactly. Because T1 was a lot more fun than T4 was for many people:

- You could log on and have guaranteed action as the zones were small
- You had a limited number of abilities, so not a steep learning curve and you could do well very quickly
- You didn't have the gear grind as you could reach BiS for T1 pretty easily
- You didn't have borked keeps to take, deal with incessant funnels, or long zone takes to sit around for
- If your character wasn't working out well, you could reroll in a few hours time, rather than grinding to t4
- As a PUG, T1 was a lot more forgiving than T4

You cannot compare apples and pears to support an argument.

In T1, most people played for fun. In T4, most people played for gear. I bet that's pretty much the same these days. You can argue till your blue in the face that you don't need Conqueror in order to be competitive, and I agree with you, but if the game isn't fun - and a lot of people feel that T4 isn't much fun - then many either quit or resort to playing for the next shiny. Once they get that shiny, or they feel it's out of reach, then many will quit.

That's what's happening now.
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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: Population

Post#135 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:06 pm

Marsares wrote:
Sulorie wrote:
Nefarian78 wrote:when you realize you're never going to take it (unless you play 12hrs a day for an entire month) many either quit directly or play for fun for a while and then quit shorty after.
You make it sound like playing for fun is the slightest evil of two not enjoyable options. When gear is your sole motivation, you play the wrong game. Live T1 was free to play and very busy with people, who played there forever or just had twinks. They had no gear progression and rr was capped and still they kept playing.
Exactly. Because T1 was a lot more fun than T4 was for many people:

- You could log on and have guaranteed action as the zones were small
- You had a limited number of abilities, so not a steep learning curve and you could do well very quickly
- You didn't have the gear grind as you could reach BiS for T1 pretty easily
- You didn't have borked keeps to take, deal with incessant funnels, or long zone takes to sit around for
- If your character wasn't working out well, you could reroll in a few hours time, rather than grinding to t4
- As a PUG, T1 was a lot more forgiving than T4

You cannot compare apples and pears to support an argument.

In T1, most people played for fun. In T4, most people played for gear. I bet that's pretty much the same these days. You can argue till your blue in the face that you don't need Conqueror in order to be competitive, and I agree with you, but if the game isn't fun - and a lot of people feel that T4 isn't much fun - then many either quit or resort to playing for the next shiny. Once they get that shiny, or they feel it's out of reach, then many will quit.

That's what's happening now.
I completely agree with this. I have EXTREMELY fond memories of T1. Even T2 and T3. Now, granted, I only played live for 1 month so I dont have the same "nostalgia" others have about T4 zones but so far I really havent had any amazingly enjoyable experiences in tier 4 like I have the rest of the zones.

My personal opinion is they are too large, you have to "roam" for action (which wasnt that common in tier 3 from memory) and the current lock mechanics are just "meh".

In some ways, I wish t4 RVR was put on hold and we all could go back to tier 3 but I know that would never happen. In other ways I almost wish "zone RVR" rotated like SCs do - where we could go back to t2 or t3 zones or even tier 1 zones as lvl 40s (not talking debolster) to play.

But you nailed it. T1 was simpler, smaller, more forgiving, less gear gap, etc. It was ALOT more like a "level play field" then. People dont BLOW UP in 2 GCDs... It doesnt feel like grouping is "mandatory" or that a MDPS is "unplayable without tanks and heals" etc.

On the flip side, there arent really "builds" and stuff either.

So the question is: How can we have a happy medium. How can we make gear-progress (afterall this is an MMO) but also make it fun etc.

IDK, I just have a TON of fond memories in the lower zones and as soon as we hit t4 and I saw the sheer size of the zones... well I just havnt had a positive RVR experience in t4 (and yes I have been in full guild warbands, as well as 6 man roams, as well as PUG warbands, as well as solo). It just isnt a "fun" as it used to be... Almost like playing a "vanilla" game in its pure form, then coming back a few years later when the expansion comes out, inflates everything, and makes a mess out of it all. Except for me, tier 4 is that expansion and tiers 1-3 were that "pure vanilla GOLD" that I loved...
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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1198

Re: Population

Post#136 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:12 am

th3gatekeeper wrote:Now, granted, I only played live for 1 month so I dont have the same "nostalgia" others have about T4 zones but so far I really havent had any amazingly enjoyable experiences in tier 4 like I have the rest of the zones.
See:
footpatrol2 wrote: To conclude, this is a niche game. It will not satisfy everyone's wants, and thats ok, stop trying too. Recognize what this game is good at and run. Exaggerate your strengths as opposed to mitigating your weaknesses.
The population of this private server (that actually sticks around) is made up almost entirely of people that played (extensively) on the live servers, most of the "new players" are old players that find this private server and rejoice; that know what they are signing up for (in regards to grouping, gear and RvR).
Entirely new players will stick around if this private server, the very essence - the soul if you will - suits them, if not they'll bugger off into the distance to jump on a modern game. They will most certainly not advocate for changes as it is just not worth the struggle and the time spent, see for example how few players actually engage in discussions on these forums.

As to changes related to fundamental game designs (classes, "balance", catering, grouping, time investment, yada yada):
There is only so much you can change before you'll see the systemic integrity disintegrate before your very eyes.

Note: We haven't even made it to city sieges yet, once these drop things will rapidly change - it'll be hit or miss, with every single hardcore pug - or players that are generally better off with other games in general - getting recklessly farmed.
People will ultimately be 'forced' to leave the game for good or will - at best - get hooked up the old-fashioned way; made to unterstand the very dynamic of this game and embracing it to its fullest extent (with its flaws and at times inconvenient 'features'), as was the case on live. Live would have dragged on for years to come (with even the tiniest of communities), just like DAoC - if it wasn't for the gremlins from hell...

Abbd.:
Enduring an (at most) 15min lasting pug SC against organized opposition is one thing, enduring a 1hr pug city siege against organized opposition is an entirely diffrent story - another calibre of masochism. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Afterlife92
Posts: 195

Re: Population

Post#137 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:33 am

The reason why I lost interest in playing was the xp nerf thing. I made fresh start like 2 months ago lvling all my chars at the same time as I play mostly in the morning and evening the ques and rvr was kinda dead. The majority of players in low tier scs start leaving groups once they die 2-3 times in a row, tanks not even guarding dps or they guard healers. The wbs in t2/t3 are unorganized. I tried to organize some 6man groups but didn't had any succes. I wanted to get to t4 fast to play with guild but we lost majority of core players. The lost of good 6man groups (Dont panic, ccm, critical acclaim, enigma, ginyu, kraut) was also one the reasons.

With these sc xp changes I might give a shot one more time after holiday.
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nebelwerfer
Legacy RR80
Posts: 358

Re: Population

Post#138 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:10 am

Imvery optimistic :) revamped t1 is so much better!

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Sulorie
Posts: 4700

Re: Population

Post#139 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:41 am

Marsares wrote:
In T1, most people played for fun. In T4, most people played for gear. I bet that's pretty much the same these days. You can argue till your blue in the face that you don't need Conqueror in order to be competitive, and I agree with you, but if the game isn't fun - and a lot of people feel that T4 isn't much fun - then many either quit or resort to playing for the next shiny. Once they get that shiny, or they feel it's out of reach, then many will quit.

That's what's happening now.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that T4 isn't fun in its current state. But I don't blame gear grind, as this is my least complaint. The whole rvr system doesn't work well, which makes it unfun. I see gear only as compensation for people who endure the T4 mess. :P
I left T4 rvr the moment I had full Annihilator gear, because it was a pain. This doesn't mean I have to quit, as there are other tiers to play.
Dying is no option.

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altharion1
Banned
Posts: 321

Re: Population

Post#140 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:31 am

A little splash of new ORVR campaign content will get people back.

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