Why do people hate on melee DoK/WP so much? (opinions wanted)

[peterthepan3]

Melee heal WP in sc might be effective (if you care about pure numbers) but is at most unreliable and need melee train party and support single target healer ( rp or am) to stabilise party. In fact as melee heal wp you dont bring to the table much more than book heal version outside filling next space in melee crowd. Dps wp in other hand - in my opinion - is totaly unefective if full premade dont babysite you. I recognise 3 good dps wps currently playing and only 1 is realy efective.

DoK is different story - cripple aura + spamable heal debuff + occasional guard and support dmg = there is no single squishy order target that can firstly escape and then survive such pressure for long

Very true. You absolutely need a WL or IB (allowing you to bring a Slayer for proper HD) to make the DPS WP work, and even then, you run out of steam VERY quickly/lack any real pressure outside of execution dmg. DPS DOK is an entirely different beast.

[Stmichael1989]

The problem with melee WP is the prevalence of snares. It's incredibly difficult to avoid getting stuck in a tar pits with nothing but tanks and guarded melee DPS to hit for melee healing. That will be much less of an issue after the melee healer patch when lifetaps will heal the same regardless of armor.

[bichka]

>I often duo
i remember on KA pair WP + IB which was pretty successful against PUG scenario. they was almost unkillable for them. Trick was simple. WP was deftard, IB - 2h and did most damage and since mindless players followed moto "Don't hit tanks, hit healer first", nobody even tried to kill WP's guard first or even knockback any of them.

so pair with any tank who have armor debuff is best choice for dok.

[peterthepan3]

The problem with melee WP is the prevalence of snares. It's incredibly difficult to avoid getting stuck in a tar pits with nothing but tanks and guarded melee DPS to hit for melee healing. That will be much less of an issue after the melee healer patch when lifetaps will heal the same regardless of armor.

Gimme them 1.7k executions now.

[Karast]

The problem with melee WP is the prevalence of snares. It's incredibly difficult to avoid getting stuck in a tar pits with nothing but tanks and guarded melee DPS to hit for melee healing. That will be much less of an issue after the melee healer patch when lifetaps will heal the same regardless of armor.

That will honestly break half the dps in this game. The reason the current balance is so bad in some regards is that armor is an unbreakable wall of mitigation already for those that lack a good spammable armor ignore.

All the lifetap change is going to do is make melee healers outshine existing MDPS, and PRDPS that can't compete due to being gutted by 75% armor caps, on top of stack - damage debuffs.

I'd rather they not add more ignores to the game. The existing ones are a balance headache already. Armor just needs a rebalance, and the ignores need to be adjusted to match.

[Daknallbomb]

The funny Thing The most Flame u get As dps healer is in pug scs.. And sry heal dps duo can carry a pug sc easy

[anarchypark]

I hope to see more melees in order faction. welcome every melee WPs

1. What is your biggest problem with melee healers in SC's?

1. players see them as 1 healer or 1 dps.
It's more like 0.5 dps(tank) 0.5 heal, like dps tank which is 0.5 tank 0.5 dps
you can fulfill both archtype roles. To do that you need to work together and change role according to situations.
But lack of tank/heal enforce hybrids to role of tank/heal that is only half effective by themselves alone.
not much u can solve. premade is only option I guess.

2. hybrid that only trying dps role, using their heal only for themselves to improve sustain dmg.
selfish playstyle, not a team player. often not even assist. overextend much etc.
( worst case they forgot other dps don't have their 0.5 heal/ 0.5 tank and blame them not to follow )
in this case, you need to treat them as pure dps. just give up the hope of heal, challenge or guard from them.
whining won't change their choice.

[peterthepan3]

Wrath/Torture needs to be considered as a DPS, imo.

[ragafury]

I like melee heal dok's in sc's. =) good dmg (like top 3 if everything flows), good heal (like bottom third, but better than the self sustain abilities of all classes; about 5x the amount).

but PLEASE TRY at least to queue with mates for proper support and just don't cross fingers that you find proper support in your sc's. If you don't come with your mates you will be more often a deadslot than a helpful. just find a blork who can guard you and BRING him with you and you are legit in my eyes.

[Aurandilaz]

Oh please, please do roll more mdps Warrior Priests. All my Destro toons could use more easy renown.

Thing is, I played DoK on live for yearss. Healmode 99% of time, but occasionally tried dpsing and it would always offer shitty results.
And it's relatively simple to understand why dps healing still does not work.

Basically you either focus 100% on dpsing, or you focus 100% on healing. Some healers like AM/shaman can do some dmg-healing, but even that is about 100% healfocus by finding soft targets that will allow BA/ITT give back greatest healreturn and thus maximizes their healing output.
Dps shaman/AM are "decent", but I would say they are diet-"sorc"/sorc-lite tier, that is, were the gifted dps shaman player to roll a sorc, they would be maybe twice as effective and far deadlier.

Same applies to dps DoK/WP, if a good player somehow "shines" on a dps DoK, they would make a godmode marauder/choppa player. Holding the player skills as a constant, we just upgrade the "arsenal" at their hands, and realize that their full potential only becomes unleashed when they play a dedicated career that actually fits the role of a mdps.

Whilst many classes are situational, dps DoK/Wp are maybe the most situation classes, that is, their niche where they can excel is the most limited. They lack charge like WE/WH do, they lack pull/fetch that mara/WL got and they lack the pure high damage that choppa/SL unleash. But in return they got their lifetaps.
Thing is, lifetaps don't kill enemies, they barely prolong the fight for your own side, maybe by few seconds, maybe longer. However lifetaps don't help you jackshit if you lack the burst to take down an enemy.

Essentially when people see a dps Dok/WP in SC roster, they think "that's like a half-mdps, half-healer" and they know they cannot expect real burst assist nor can they expect real reliable healing output from that player. Yay? The team would be better off had the scenario slot been taken by actual dps or by an actual healer, instead they get a hybrid that falls behind in both categories.
Of course there are weird and rare situations where 5 players come together and help the mdps dok/Wp shine in that specific situation, but as said, the niche where dps dok/wp can shine is extremely limited.

Now don't take my post as an "I hate all mdps healers", it's just that I've tried doing it on live time after time on my DoK, had various arguments over the years, and in the end most people end up agreeing that hybrids just do not work when compared to actual dedicated mdps or dedicated healer who specializes in one thing with full focus, instead of trying to juggle with too many things with well known end-results.