General state of classes and Order/Destruction

[Haojin]

This game is a lot more balanced then players give it credit. Though some key rollbacks need to be made to restore balance. A major one is the morale gain rate for a full group of 6.

Mythic made some mistakes and needed to due some changing but they also got a lot correct. Large overhaul's are not really needed. There are major components that were part of this game that got taken away like the defensive morale cycle nerf of patch 1.3.3.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091204130 ... 2009_1-3-3

What happened in 1.3.3 actually, couldnt find it. If you point this out, i'll be happy.

[footpatrol2]

I'll take it to PM's to not derail the thread.

[Koryu199X]

Why are white lions pouncing in mid air, again? Let's be honest it takes away from the need for the player to be mindful of their surroundings and use forward planning strategies to get the most out of their class. Pounce is a tool that should be used wisely. In addition, as already mentioned players need to be more alert in scenarios like tor anroc. If you position yourself badly you should expect to receive a flying lesson courtesy of a tank straight into the lava.

[Daknallbomb]

Hmm diddent read something of pounce change since last change. Cooldown and so on. Well If pounce are rdy they can use it in mid air. That schould be like IT is

[blaqwar]

Hmm diddent read something of pounce change since last change. Cooldown and so on. Well If pounce are rdy they can use it in mid air. That schould be like IT is

Again posting for the sake of posting and not to contribute.

White Lion

EXPERIMENTAL: The cooldown of Pounce is now 5 seconds, and it will increase your speed by 30% for 2 seconds when you land. This increased speed effect will be removed if you use an ability. Pounce will no longer function while airborne.

From viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17985

That change was never explicitly reverted and Pounce functions perfectly well when airborne. Why this hasn't been reported as a bug is probably because the people who wanted Pounce nerfed in the first place are now content with the state of the ability. Or because it's regarded as a hidden reversion of the original nerf. I think it's pretty much general knowledge that it can be used mid-air. Any further detailed discussion on Pounce should probably go here: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=17616

[Inquisition]

WP grace builds need help. Multi stat lines is hard. Possible buff to WP damage would make DPS viable and Grace a hybrid build. Not sure what would have to change for DoK to make it balanced.

[peterthepan3]

WP grace builds need help. Multi stat lines is hard. Possible buff to WP damage would make DPS viable and Grace a hybrid build. Not sure what would have to change for DoK to make it balanced.

dok/wp changes have been discussed, tried and tested, and I'm pretty sure their re-implementation (in whatever guise that may be) is pending on client control.

[Ninepaces]

In response to op directly:
@6 man level

Hitting power:
Order stronger. Primarily because of 10% crit from kobs and all the spirit dmg from the SM. Can mix in a SW for more crit stacking.

Mobility... (cc+ability to close on a target):
Order stronger. WL pet snare, WL pet pull, kobs multisnare, pounce, SM m2 vs BO aoe snare, celerity, maura pull. Pounce + M2 means order has an incredible strong advantage because as soon as m2 is built up they have an indefensible double leap into backlines with 2 damage dealers. Also kobs being able to run a 2h and still contribute fully to the party gets the +10% block strike through giving it a punt off advantage vs chosen that needs s/b to make use of its primary asset (morale pump). SM m2 can also be used defensively so even if you punt a SM away once he has M2 he can leap into guard range of anyone destro are trying to burst.

Defense:
Destro stronger due to morale pump.


Overall:
Order have a clear advantage. Even factoring in double morale pump every minute destro are vulnerable for the other 40 seconds where they just dont have the damage OR the mobility to compete against a group of equal skill.

[Haojin]

In response to op directly:
@6 man level

Hitting power:
Order stronger. Primarily because of 10% crit from kobs and all the spirit dmg from the SM. Can mix in a SW for more crit stacking.

Mobility... (cc+ability to close on a target):
Order stronger. WL pet snare, WL pet pull, kobs multisnare, pounce, SM m2 vs BO aoe snare, celerity, maura pull. Pounce + M2 means order has an incredible strong advantage because as soon as m2 is built up they have an indefensible double leap into backlines with 2 damage dealers. Also kobs being able to run a 2h and still contribute fully to the party gets the +10% block strike through giving it a punt off advantage vs chosen that needs s/b to make use of its primary asset (morale pump). SM m2 can also be used defensively so even if you punt a SM away once he has M2 he can leap into guard range of anyone destro are trying to burst.

Defense:
Destro stronger due to morale pump.


Overall:
Order have a clear advantage. Even factoring in double morale pump every minute destro are vulnerable for the other 40 seconds where they just dont have the damage OR the mobility to compete against a group of equal skill.

Oh you totally forgetting about Crimson Death + Deeply Impaled + BO Inı steal. They are exteremly OP and better than DT + LS + EA.

/sarcasm

[Ninepaces]

lol someone said that? First of all you cant run a party without chosen. The chosen toolkit is so important... superpunt, kd, stagger, auras. Second the BO ini steal cancels out with the SM ini steal. Even if you dont max crit stacking on order and go slayer/wl instead of sw/wl its the SWORDMASTER that gives order its dmg advantage. The single target dmg it does right now is off the charts. BO has some corp dmg but is primarily physical. Not only can SM run higher base dmg from more str than BO because of WODS protection but mitigation on its dmg starts at 40% compared to 70% for armor. Then you have wrath of hoeth stacking with knight resist debuff for -300 ish spirit resist on top of that and all of a sudden that 40% mitigation is about 20% mitigation, way lower than armor mitigation with the strongest armor debuff applied. Then you add blurring shock procs that gives everyone else spirit dmg procs on that spirit resists you're debuffing.

As for deeply impaled, Im not even sure mauraders take it. 1 tactic on a DPS is worth considerably more than a tactic slot on a tank. E.g Maura has tactics like ignore 50% armor for certain skills, and +50% bonus crit dmg.