Archetype predetermination

[Bulgril]

I remember one of the things that disappointed me the most when the game released, was to realize that classes like zealot and archmage are mostly supposed to remain healers. One time I created a Zealot, and remember going around soloing, with the fixated idea that I'd raise him a DPS. People would ask me to heal them, the few times I joined groups. I'd answer, I'm a DPS, not a healer. Much hate.

Then I read that my Zealot would never be as good a DPS than an actual DPS. It was such a disappointment.

Thoughts on archetypes? isn't the high elf archmage supposed to be a magic prodigy, according to lore?

[Telperien]

WAR and its reincarnation RoR is classic mmorpg based on triada of tank - dps - healer.



So dont expect to have classes like GW2 have. By picking class you practically choose your role in party cause dont forget WAR/RoR is party and warband oriented game. Ofc others will complain that you dont fulfill spot in party but do want you want. Thats why we have frustriation about not hoting, no guarding, going solo, not using buffs etc. If you expect something else RoR is not game for you. Hell, its not game for everyone.

Beauty of RoR classes is that you have choice of type of archetype you can be and within its borders even more or less custom your gameplay. But still your archetype stays the same and should be priority when playing in group.

[Jaycub]

AM and zealot can both heal somewhat while in a "DPS" spec, no point in smashing your head against a wall when you are the only person in your sc group that can heal, either alt f4 or at least try to heal.

Not sure how it is on Zealot, but AM/Shaman even in a full DPS spec can do some pretty good healing. I assume on zealot all you have to do is swap out a tactic and play around with glowing hands for a similar effect?

All the healing archetypes with DPS specs are going to be niche in that regard, you'll have to find a warband sized guild for viable DPS zealot/RP, and a 6 man guild for AM/Shaman and that will be only sometimes you'll have to have another class to play as well for serious stuff or groups that can't afford to run them.

[Bulgril]

I'm wondering as to the reason behind this kind of design decision. It's like walking on your own foot. You could simply have each class do its own thing: Order has six magic schools, Chaos comes in four flavours... instead, we classify classes and mirror them? Sounds poor...

Idk GW2 does look like they simply created a bunch of classes, and allowed each to do its thing. Then again it's what, seven or eight classes total? WAR has four, for each race and side of the conflict... IDK.

GW2 is still a thing though, right heheh

[Gachimuchi]

I'm wondering as to the reason behind this kind of design decision.

Because it works?

[anarchypark]

yea AM being healer was disappointment
now i have compromised with it like this :
sorcerer do some dark magic and AM counter it with high magic
undo whatever hostile magics work
kinda fun healing sorc/magus dmg

[roadkillrobin]

The classic MMORPG style used to also include Crowd Controllers and Support. Those two acrhetypes have been merged to all classes in WAR but we see alot of their traits on Tanks, and Engies/Maguses.
On newer MMO's like GW2 the pure classes have wattered down even more. And they all have traits of all archetypes, Wich sounds fun and all on paper. But there are alot of people out there who likes to play Tanks, Healers, CCers and Supporters(buff/debuff) and forcing em to basicly play like hybrids.

[Telperien]

I guess both designs got own pros and cons. I felt unneeded in GW2, opposite to RoR where I can do my role and it has impact on my party/WB. Its more satisfying.

[Bulgril]

I'm wondering as to the reason behind this kind of design decision.

Because it works?

Personally, I think the way we play MMOs is in a 90% determined by the limitations of MMO development. That's why we need the classes in the first place. Come on, go watch the trailers, read the lore or play the miniature game: we need Healers, tanks and so on because apparently there's no way to make an actual, proper Warhammer MMO, not because the class system works.

What would work would be my mage reciting some arcanes, then the cloudy sky in the scenario looping into a fire hurricane, and all those awesome things we all can think of. But that's not possible.

Then again, I'm not writing this assuming you don't know all of it. All I'm saying is, it's sad if we need to implement a system that's constraining just because it fits the limitations of the genre.

Tl;dr Thinking out loud.

I guess both designs got own pros and cons. I felt unneeded in GW2, opposite to RoR where I can do my role and it has impact on my party/WB. Its more satisfying.

I guess, I just wish it all felt less simplistic.

IMO, WAR should've been developed à la Mount&Blade all along, battles-wise That'd have been fun.

[Ninepaces]

part of the skill involved is that when you see a class you immediately know most of the abilities he has or doesnt have and can act accordingly. It limits the hidden element prevalent in systems where a player may or may not be able to do any given thing and hides this info until he actually does it. It reduces the game from play and counterplay to guessing.