Shaman/Archmage sugestion

[Landaren]

I like the idea of making am/shaman a cleanser.

How about increasing the number of debuffs removed from the target based on their mechanic stacks?

[gungnir08]

I like the idea of making am/shaman a cleanser.

How about increasing the number of debuffs removed from the target based on their mechanic stacks?

Heh, I think it'd be cool if Force/Tranquility/Waaagh acted like combo points with an amped-up cleanse as a finisher.

The number of GCDs required to build up to a good finisher would function as downtime enough for the cleanse itself not to have a cooldown, and the need to build points to be able to cleanse in a pinch might even give Empowered Lores a use for once.

[Gachimuchi]

The second one seems too strong. On my AM, I've got ~2k armor with a pot and every resist softcapped before applying my buff, and adding that much Willpower on top of my defensive stats seems a little obscene.

The point would be to address the Multiple attribute dependency of AM/Shaman that is supposed to weave in damage/healing spells occasionally while mainly doing healing/damage.

[gungnir08]

The second one seems too strong. On my AM, I've got ~2k armor with a pot and every resist softcapped before applying my buff, and adding that much Willpower on top of my defensive stats seems a little obscene.

The point would be to address the Multiple attribute dependency of AM/Shaman that is supposed to weave in damage/healing spells occasionally while mainly doing healing/damage.

Then perhaps your first post was mistaken.

I can see how adding Willpower for a positive Force balance and Intelligence for a positive Tranquility balance would maybe enable some weaving, but doing it as your first post suggests would give healers more Willpower and DPS more Intelligence. That wouldn't really address multiple attribute dependence, it'd just give bonuses for the things you've already been doing, simply for doing them.

[Gachimuchi]

I can see how adding Willpower for a positive Force balance and Intelligence for a positive Tranquility balance would maybe enable some weaving, but doing it as your first post suggests would give healers more Willpower and DPS more Intelligence. That wouldn't really address multiple attribute dependence, it'd just give bonuses for the things you've already been doing, simply for doing them.

You still have to cast spells from the opposite side of the class to generate mechanic, I fail to see how this is an issue other than maybe a dps AM spamming HoT on himself 5 times so his first DoT ticks a bit harder when he reaches int-softcap. A heal spec AM/Shaman will... do what? Spam a hilariously bad DoT that's very likely to just get disrupted for 400 more willpower instead of just, you know, healing?

[gungnir08]

I can see how adding Willpower for a positive Force balance and Intelligence for a positive Tranquility balance would maybe enable some weaving, but doing it as your first post suggests would give healers more Willpower and DPS more Intelligence. That wouldn't really address multiple attribute dependence, it'd just give bonuses for the things you've already been doing, simply for doing them.

You still have to cast spells from the opposite side of the class to generate mechanic, I fail to see how this is an issue other than maybe a dps AM spamming HoT on himself 5 times so his first DoT ticks a bit harder when he reaches int-softcap. A heal spec AM/Shaman will... do what? Spam a hilariously bad DoT that's very likely to just get disrupted for 400 more willpower instead of just, you know, healing?

I was thinking more along the lines of a Vaul/Isha hybrid spec that didn't make use of Divine Fury. You could build to have mediocre intelligence and willpower, and then let the mechanic contribute enough to fill in the deficit.

How does your initial suggestion help to address the class's multiple attribute dependency, then? As I see it, it certainly makes the mechanic more useful, but it doesn't appear to do anything to give the player a reason to dump Force or Tranquility for any reason. In fact, regardless of whether or not you're DPS or healing, you'd ideally want to get to five points in one direction and stay there if doing so meant an extra 400 points to intelligence or willpower.

[Miszczu5647]

This thread is going into class mechanics discussion. And as a shaman player it's keep my interest.

IMO all problems with shaman and AM comes from nonfunctional mechanics. We can approach this problem by two ways:
1. reworking mechanics;
2. reworking all abilities to fit current mechanics;
But this matters belongs to balance forum so I end here.

Strictly OT now:
Maybe add to Shaman/AM cleans absorb who is scaling with Mork/Tranquility points (more point = more absorb). In 6vs6 and bigger fights heal debuffs flying around like mad. With two decent absorbs it would by easier to keep your defensive target in good shape.
I also like the idea with tactics to clean everything.

[Gachimuchi]

How does your initial suggestion help to address the class's multiple attribute dependency, then? As I see it, it certainly makes the mechanic more useful, but it doesn't appear to do anything to give the player a reason to dump Force or Tranquility for any reason. In fact, regardless of whether or not you're DPS or healing, you'd ideally want to get to five points in one direction and stay there if doing so meant an extra 400 points to intelligence or willpower.

The reason should be obvious, if they have been casting offensive spells it will make for a more powerful heal when needed. If they have been healing and the DPS are trying to down a target it will make for a more powerful instant cast of damage or a stronger DoT that stands a chance of not being disrupted.

Having 400 extra intelligence when all you're doing is spamming heal does nothing on its own, same goes for willpower if you're damaging, with the added small benefit of disrupt chance(could also change the willpower to heal power).

[gungnir08]

The reason should be obvious, if they have been casting offensive spells it will make for a more powerful heal when needed. If they have been healing and the DPS are trying to down a target it will make for a more powerful instant cast of damage or a stronger DoT that stands a chance of not being disrupted.

Having 400 extra intelligence when all you're doing is spamming heal does nothing on its own, same goes for willpower if you're damaging, with the added small benefit of disrupt chance(could also change the willpower to heal power).

I am so confused right now. Either I'm missing something big, or you've made a mistake somewhere. You do know that damaging spells build Force and healing spells build Tranquility, right? Does your suggestion involve switching the two? Here's your first post:

2. Make Force/Gork's Waaagh increase intelligence by some calculation of level, increasing it up to 400 at 5 points of it at lvl 40. Can also be applied to tranquility/Mork's Waaagh with willpower.

So, if Force increases Intelligence as stated, then a DPS AM will build more and more intelligence as offensive spells are cast. This doesn't promote casting healing spells at any point, since doing so penalizes the AM by removing 400 intelligence as Force is consumed. The same is true for Tranquility; since having five stacks of Tranquility will increase willpower substantially, casting any damaging spells only hurts the AM because doing so consumes all of the AM's mechanic.

How would this mechanic promote moving between the two, then? As I've shown, this change would only further push AMs toward one extreme or the other.

Sorry if I'm the one messing up here. I just can't wrap my head around why this change would be a good idea as stated.

[Penril]

We were discussing class mechanics some weeks ago (viewtopic.php?f=76&t=12329&start=40#p149500).

Maybe we can continue discussing mechanics on that thread? Now that the Balance Forums are open, maybe we will see an AM/Shaman thread soon, so we better get ready for it.