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Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

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Arbich
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Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#61 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:17 pm

About the location of fights:

why not make a home team and away team rule. the home team decides in which area the fight will be and tells the away team 24 hours in advance.

I don´t think there should be ladder-based scenarios, because that is not what the game is about.

And you should everyone tell in advance where fights will happen, to avoid unintended interruption. The warhammer community is all in all nice. I don´t think any gankers will appear, when they know that organized fights happen in a certain area.
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Gobtar
Posts: 796

Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#62 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:26 pm

I know on live when we had 6v6s a bunch of the spectators would watch and notify if someone was going to cause some ****...I know Maras and WLs would just pull over whoever was about to interrupt and get fried by the rest of the observers.

Another suggestion, lock-in certain groups that have a full 6, and then you could have solo players and smaller groups that can combine in either a pick or draft system.
Last edited by Gobtar on Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#63 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:30 pm

Scenarios just feel more clean, and you get a nice scoreboard at the end.

I feel like any problems or hindrances with them in terms of their ability to provide a death match battle ground can be fixed by the dev team eventually.

You also have more room, no NPC or chance for any kind of outside interruption/intervention. Map knowledge even in a 6v6 DM scenario can be a huge factor in terms of winning/losing which is why having standardized maps to play on is a good thing. A team that takes advantage of the pillars in CW can do some nice things for instance.

I have also seen Geni I think hint at the idea that it could be possible to track stats from scenarios, which has obvious huge implications.
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davispeed
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Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#64 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:04 pm

No No and No
]

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#65 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:32 pm

Reason why I am not suggesting scenario ladder system is because this will just upset people that for some reason hate anything to do with 6mans. I want this to be an event organised by the 6v6 community, the presence of which will not affect the game mechanics/orvr people.

In an ideal world? Sure - it would be awesome to have a ladder system similar to WoW/6v6 events yadda yadda. Geni himself has been pretty vocal on such ideas, and it is nice to see this. However, as I've had drilled into my head so many times: a) scenarios are an offshoot and deviation from the REAL pvp of the game; b) this game isn't a 'competitive game', and most people don't care for anything smaller than WB vs WB. Also, I don't want time that could be dedicated to fixing the game as a whole/bringing it back to live-status diverted on this, hence why it will run as a separate project altogether within RoR so that people aren't offended by my audacity in pursuing such a blasphemous agenda.
I intend to have enough interest to warrant setting it all up - hopefully coinciding with the launch of T4 - and to utilise as much support and help as possible from you guys. See me as a facilitator more than anything else.

@Jaycub
I love all the ideas you have suggested thus far, but I just don't see them ever seeing the light of day due to time constraints/animosity and illogical 'hate' towards 'us people'/'this game isn't WoW!'. Which is perfectly fine with me, and I'm sure that if the interest and motivation is there we can make it work as a community - in whatever guise that may be.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kolkuth
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Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#66 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:36 pm

Jaycub wrote:I have seen guilds like CCM run 3-2-1 groups in CW to good effect, but I feel like it's a big gamble.
I agree with you, it's a risky gamble. But you can impose a constant and ever moving pressure on enemy team, which requires to be really aware when facing it.

We're currently having really good results with our core 3/2/1 team : no severe defeat on CW atm (when flag isn't being tag before start :P).
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CCM II : Kolkuth

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TINYRICK
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Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#67 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:37 pm

Its the same argument thats existed since DAoC. There is nothing wrong with running a 6v6 community to setup fights, though zerg mentality seems to flip their **** even if it has zero effect on them.

In DAoC, it was the island and zergs generally knew to stay away or they'd get farmed. We dont need devs/gms to setup a seperate area, we just need to come together and agree on an area this can happen at. Group courtesy would be welcome too ( no assjams, let them have clean fights etc ). Until then, CW is the go-to area.
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Genisaurus
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Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#68 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:18 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:However, as I've had drilled into my head so many times: a) scenarios are an offshoot and deviation from the REAL pvp of the game; b) this game isn't a 'competitive game', and most people don't care for anything smaller than WB vs WB.
All comments about this are essentially wrappers for three issues:

1. Warhammer Online never supported nor built out content for 6v6 competitions and communities. As a result, and as you pointed out, anything we do for this community requires new content which takes more development time and resources than repairing existing content. Moreover, repaired existing content will be appreciated and used by a larger segment of the community - there's more overlap on the RvR side of that venn diagram than there is on the 6v6 side.

2. The things that would benefit the 6v6 community the most - MMR queuing, laddered scenarios, etc. - we simply don't have the playerbase to support or a large enough 6v6 community to justify the effort. That's kind of a Catch-22, I know: we don't have the community because we don't have the features. We don't build the features because we don't have the community (and also point 1)

3. Even in a best-case scenario, where we have total control over every aspect of the game, there's a limited number of things we could do for the 6v6 community. Seasonal ladders and maybe a unique trophy or cape. A no-objectives deathmatch scenario. That's about it. The 6v6 subcommunity seems rather against environmental hazards in those scenarios (judging from discussions about EC), so I don't think new environments/maps would really serve a purpose (here's another mostly-flat area with a few obstacles to break LOS). Once we do have things in place, the community either stays happy with the status quo or stagnates and leaves. There's nothing we could really do to "refresh" the scene. We can continually refresh the RvR campaign and system, but there is a very finite number of things we could ever do for the 6v6 community.

What gets people frothing at the bit is when players insist there's some kind of moral or value judgement being made on either side of the argument, by the devs or by other players.

"6v6 PvP identifies the best players, RvR is just a mindless zergfest"
"Warhammer Online was not a (small-scale) competitive game"
"RvR was the focus of the game and everything else is unworthy of attention."

These statements are worthless, no matter who is making them. They are almost always framed around a personal dislike for either certain activities, or certain players (and boy do some people make that easy), and as such don't really reflect the reality of the situation. The reality is that we have around 2,000 active accounts, and maybe at most 200 of those players are significantly invested in the 6v6 scene. Meanwhile we're sitting on top of a wealth of content that is easily restored and will be appreciated by about ~1900 of those players, whereas new content made for the 6v6 community would be appreciated by maybe ~250 players. It's a numbers game through and through - one number is bigger than the other. One number can get much bigger than the other ever could or would. One number will stay bigger longer than the other.

I really like to see events like the one proposed, because the 6v6 community supporting itself like this is really the best thing that could be done to keep itself afloat at this time. I like having you guys around, but that's going to last exactly as long as (the depth of your nostalgia + your ability to self-motivate).

Anywho, that's all I have to say on the matter. This isn't the thread for discussing laddered scenarios or other content the 6v6 community might want to see in the future. Posts trying to object to a player-run event on some basis of personal taste or value judgement will be deleted and earn my dissatisfaction.

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lilsabin
Posts: 619

Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#69 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:06 pm

peterpan , why dont you and your team join the rvr dev team and create some type of arena for 6v6 to impliment in the game . And the rewards could be purely aesthetic for now , like mounts and appearences :)

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TINYRICK
Posts: 14

Re: Gauging interest in a potential 6v6 Ladder

Post#70 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:12 pm

lilsabin wrote:peterpan , why dont you and your team join the rvr dev team and create some type of arena for 6v6 to impliment in the game . And the rewards could be purely aesthetic for now , like mounts and appearences :)

I dont think rewards should be implemented due to the outcry that would come from them being an isolated reward for 6v6. If rewards were implemented, it would have to be something thats already attainable for everyone in RvR.
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