Are the Devs Ever Going to Fix Slayer?

[CountTalabecland]

Furthermore, the Dwarf racial tactics aren’t even conducive to Slayer as an MDPS. Ancestral Inheritance is pointless because the rage mechanic deletes most of it with outcome being a negligible increase in armor. However, armor in pvp paired with such low toughness is fairly inefficient to begin with. It would be much better for Slayer’s defensive tactic to buff Wounds.

Orcs of course do get a wounds buff, and a handsome 1600 health at that, giving them 9-10k in sov. Given the way morales work, this is much better than 600 armor for wbs as well. Likewise, at least choppas class mechanic doesn’t work against its def tactic like Slayers does.

Then there is Stubborn as Stone, which gives a negligible amount of toughness to Slayer which sits at about 60 toughness anyways in Sov/Tri/BL weapon.

Slayer doesn’t have enough toughness for the tactic to have meaning and the time decrease on a KD isn’t worth the tactic slot as the Bloodlord weapon deletes most of that tough buff anyhow.

Further, orcs have “stab you gooder.” Which as a 25% crit dmg increase works well with the MDPS mechanic.

Organized wb play may not use these racial tactics where you can just max dmg and depend on pocket heals/guard to survive, but this is just another example of Choppa/orcs being designed well and synergizing with racial tactics, meanwhile Slayer gets pretty much no benefit and the tactics don’t make sense.

[lumpi33]

Choppas have the Wounds tactic, the m1 absorb and usually the 250 toughness hots from shamans, putting them in a lot better spot than slayers. Surviving is everything as fragile dps. Their 20s group AA haste is also superior to the slayer abilities. With their GtdC that has also a movement buff they also more mobile and have the better utility.

[ravezaar]

Its not balanced, idk what it is but its not balanced at all

[wardfan220]

Nearly useless pull? Lol

They can pull through walls, through doors, on the ground pulling a player from 2nd floor keep, behind a wall, to the ground.

That pull requires the target to be under 20 ft away, shorter then guard range, shorter then any aoe attack in your kit, meaning in 90% of fights it is just providing free punt immunity. That pull also has the exact same verticality requirement as mara/wl/engi/magus. That pull breaks if you ever so much as walk off a pebble as any airtime breaks the channel. That pull also requires LoS to the target meaning if you are being pulled through a door then you were standing in the entryway and a magus/engi could pull you the same exact way. Yes that pull is nearly useless, its one use being to punish bad players who think its ok to stand in the doorway of a keep where 4 other classes could do the exact same punish. 4 years ago it could do some of the things you accuse it of doing but as I put in the first post Choppa lost its I win button years ago.

You cna say all of that, but everything I said happened to me personally from choppas, so I don't believe a word of it.

[eigner93]

6 month after the melee dps patch they still didnt release any other balance patch other than the little one straight after, adjusting a few things. I have made a topic about this and one of the dev explained it nicely that they prefer to make bigger balance changes less frequently. So the next time you can expect any kind of changes to any of the melee classes is around the time when they release the RDPS patch.

About slayer as a MDPS and to people who say slayer is fine, please roll one. Because it seems like not many people are rolling one as it is the least played DPS class in the game along with Sorc or BW, but they leave their 2 cents in these posts. Roll one and you will see Slayer is not a bad class, its just doesn't excel at anything. Everything a slayer can do other classes can do roughly the same or better, but without the drawbacks.

[eigner93]

Furthermore, the Dwarf racial tactics aren’t even conducive to Slayer as an MDPS. Ancestral Inheritance is pointless because the rage mechanic deletes most of it with outcome being a negligible increase in armor. However, armor in pvp paired with such low toughness is fairly inefficient to begin with. It would be much better for Slayer’s defensive tactic to buff Wounds.

Orcs of course do get a wounds buff, and a handsome 1600 health at that, giving them 9-10k in sov. Given the way morales work, this is much better than 600 armor for wbs as well. Likewise, at least choppas class mechanic doesn’t work against its def tactic like Slayers does.

Then there is Stubborn as Stone, which gives a negligible amount of toughness to Slayer which sits at about 60 toughness anyways in Sov/Tri/BL weapon.

Slayer doesn’t have enough toughness for the tactic to have meaning and the time decrease on a KD isn’t worth the tactic slot as the Bloodlord weapon deletes most of that tough buff anyhow.

Further, orcs have “stab you gooder.” Which as a 25% crit dmg increase works well with the MDPS mechanic.

Organized wb play may not use these racial tactics where you can just max dmg and depend on pocket heals/guard to survive, but this is just another example of Choppa/orcs being designed well and synergizing with racial tactics, meanwhile Slayer gets pretty much no benefit and the tactics don’t make sense.

I agree with you. It just feels badly designed. Even the latest melee "rework" just seems to make more sense on the Choppa side, where as Slayer is just a mess.

[wonshot]

... I am not asking for destro to lose anything, just that Order be granted a remotely equal toolset of CC.

At first glanse. No! Absolutely not. Not as long as Order have such a huge advantage in raw damage output with Funnelpower, Flashfire, Lilitharrow, Barrage spam, Broadhead etc on top of the healing modifiers synergies for groupplay and the mitigation advantage in Talon.

Both realms should have strong identities and realm-advantages, its less so these days both both realms still have some clear strong suites. It is kinda up to the balancing team to figure out how strong they want to lean into these remaining realm-advantages like Destro have soft cc snare advantages, and hard cc crowdcontrol advantages on top of defensive tempo advantage vs orders offensive tempo advantage. What happends when you are CC immune on order, and have stronger trading capabilities (?) You negate the destro anvantages whern you can push into, where they want to pull you. When you can outtrade the other realm and negate their wincondtions you start winning. Order already have alternative ways to copy some of destros advantages, such as a 25%healdebuff proc on WL to replicate the Chosen healdebuff aura. An aoe frontline knock in the Engineer control build. It not 1:1 but its still there and players are using it.

Class balancing needs to be looked at, from both group size play and warbandplay. And taking into account realmwide how it matches the rest of a realm. Which is not an easy balancing act. Slayers just a few years ago were overperforming. Now did the MPDS patch do enough for slayer, I agree no and the popuation attractiveness shows for the class. But giving them CC without thinking of what that does for Order is probably not a road we want to move down through. Their M4 aoe knock is kinda already there for higher performance play.
Heres an other overlooked fact in slayers advantage, Slayer Middletree M4 aoe incoming healdebuff stacks with DPS runie 35%incoming healtactic. Making for a massive Dwarf only synergy powerhouse. But barely anyone uses it. Slayers used to make destro tanks hate the game, by bypassing all defensive stats with Rampage and hiding behind their own 100% parry M1 making them frontal trading kings in warband clashes. Not much in the game needs to change for that to be true again and destro tanks melt as fast as their guarding dps.

[CountTalabecland]

I just need the devs to answer a simple question, what ability does the Slayer have that is so spectacular that then makes it fair for the Slayer not to have a pull, leap, AoE KD, etc like every other single MDPS?

I would not accept that anything about Slayer is so special that it is the only MDPS without that CC.

And if they answer with the reworked version of “Rampage,” then Sigmar save us they are a lost cause.

[CountTalabecland]

... I am not asking for destro to lose anything, just that Order be granted a remotely equal toolset of CC.

At first glanse. No! Absolutely not. Not as long as Order have such a huge advantage in raw damage output with Funnelpower, Flashfire, Lilitharrow, Barrage spam, Broadhead etc on top of the healing modifiers synergies for groupplay and the mitigation advantage in Talon.

Both realms should have strong identities and realm-advantages, its less so these days both both realms still have some clear strong suites. It is kinda up to the balancing team to figure out how strong they want to lean into these remaining realm-advantages like Destro have soft cc snare advantages, and hard cc crowdcontrol advantages on top of defensive tempo advantage vs orders offensive tempo advantage. What happends when you are CC immune on order, and have stronger trading capabilities (?) You negate the destro anvantages whern you can push into, where they want to pull you. When you can outtrade the other realm and negate their wincondtions you start winning. Order already have alternative ways to copy some of destros advantages, such as a 25%healdebuff proc on WL to replicate the Chosen healdebuff aura. An aoe frontline knock in the Engineer control build. It not 1:1 but its still there and players are using it.

Class balancing needs to be looked at, from both group size play and warbandplay. And taking into account realmwide how it matches the rest of a realm. Which is not an easy balancing act. Slayers just a few years ago were overperforming. Now did the MPDS patch do enough for slayer, I agree no and the popuation attractiveness shows for the class. But giving them CC without thinking of what that does for Order is probably not a road we want to move down through. Their M4 aoe knock is kinda already there for higher performance play.
Heres an other overlooked fact in slayers advantage, Slayer Middletree M4 aoe incoming healdebuff stacks with DPS runie 35%incoming healtactic. Making for a massive Dwarf only synergy powerhouse. But barely anyone uses it. Slayers used to make destro tanks hate the game, by bypassing all defensive stats with Rampage and hiding behind their own 100% parry M1 making them frontal trading kings in warband clashes. Not much in the game needs to change for that to be true again and destro tanks melt as fast as their guarding dps.

I respect your insights and you know what you are talking about but I think you miss the point a little.

Those M4s are strong true, but they are complete mirrors of choppa that already gets a better ID, pull/speedboost, and better racial tactics.

[ravezaar]

Those M4s are strong true, but they are complete mirrors of choppa that already gets a better ID, pull/speedboost, and better racial tactics.

-This

Cant defend the bad balance of Slayer with an M4 that isnt even in play, I also like Bomblings imput but no this isnt it sry