SW or BW for Ranged AOE?

[Kaldus]

Hi

I have both BW & SW at lower level, enjoy them both but I'm curious at max level and assume equal gear, does one class out perform in terms of AOE dmg compared to the other?

Secondly for 6 man or 24 man, is one class more desirable - and why?

Thanks

[gersy]

SW is the answer to this question, at least for now.

however rdps patch will change this almost certainly, as skirm aoe SW is grossly overpowered in bis gear when given WW and piloted by a proper individual. it's a sleeper pick as far as most of the community is concerned but i'm very confident that it will receive substantial nerfs in the upcoming patch (rightfully so).

as far as BW, the most effective aoe build is actually a melee-range build where you get up close much of the time to deal optimal damage, so it doesn't really fit your question as you asked about ranged aoe.

[Adelmar]

SW is the answer to this question, at least for now.

however rdps patch will change this almost certainly, as skirm aoe SW is grossly overpowered in bis gear when given WW and piloted by a proper individual. it's a sleeper pick as far as most of the community is concerned but i'm very confident that it will receive substantial nerfs in the upcoming patch (rightfully so).

Sadly, single target Skirmish will be wildly nerfed as well...not like the non aoe build is overperforming. I'm honestly not the most excited for this upcoming SW patch but it is what it is I guess.

[gersy]

SW is the answer to this question, at least for now.

however rdps patch will change this almost certainly, as skirm aoe SW is grossly overpowered in bis gear when given WW and piloted by a proper individual. it's a sleeper pick as far as most of the community is concerned but i'm very confident that it will receive substantial nerfs in the upcoming patch (rightfully so).

Sadly, single target Skirmish will be wildly nerfed as well...not like the non aoe build is overperforming. I'm honestly not the most excited for this upcoming SW patch but it is what it is I guess.

i think ST skirm and ST assault will either be buffed or remain similar but fester (either the ability itself and/or the full resist ignore tactic) and aoe skirm (lileath's arrow, barrage and split arrows) are definitely getting the nerf bat if i had to guess. spamming 1500+ damaging lileath's arrow every gcd with no cd (winds), which has a massive and forgiving aoe, from a safe range is pretty imbalanced. against pugs it's basically like spamming WL's m2 over and over lmao

[Sever1n]

According to WE patch it can be buffed, so prep for 2k lileaths.

[rorswar]

SW is the answer to this question, at least for now.

however rdps patch will change this almost certainly, as skirm aoe SW is grossly overpowered in bis gear when given WW and piloted by a proper individual. it's a sleeper pick as far as most of the community is concerned but i'm very confident that it will receive substantial nerfs in the upcoming patch (rightfully so).

Sadly, single target Skirmish will be wildly nerfed as well...not like the non aoe build is overperforming. I'm honestly not the most excited for this upcoming SW patch but it is what it is I guess.

SW seems to get the nerf bat, either directly or indirectly, most of the patches. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but nonetheless. Often, it’s not even warranted, like Assault was an innocent bystander of the Initiative and Parry nerfs, including a host of other nerfs over time.

I’d also argue it’d be weird to nerf AOE just because it synergises well with a Whispering Wind SM against PUGs. Let’s dumb the game even further down, as heavens forbid, people try to create viable compositions against the blobfest that we experience these days.

Even more so in a game that’s meant to be group based, punishing synergies seems odd. We may as well remove class interdependencies then, and create weird self-reliant hybrids like in GW2 and balance around 1v1, but as the hordes of WE tell us - we don’t balance around that.

[JohnnyWayne]

Yes please nerf all order classes, so destro is ahead on all DPS without exception. Then finally, destro will not have to suffer fighting in equal numbers anymore. It is unbearable, that they have no apathy at times.

I have yet to see a good decision zumos makes on balance. Surely they have the right guy for the job. Server pop balance shows this is fine. Smh.

Edit: Oh right, destro is already ahead on the rSH. My bad. Nerf away.

[Sever1n]

Asw got compensated for lose of parry with unification of crit. Basically hes the only melle that can shoot on the move with high crit. Skirm was buffed when they reworked tri ting bonuses wich buffed high armpen of sw and made that tactic additive. But Hewhoshouldbenotnamed patch hit a big nerf on utility of sw including festering. Before that scout SW could delete people in stun rotation. Now those days long gone and fester no more death sentence. Asw pre WS patch was 5k armor 60ish parry verison of hat that could face tank anything and deal pretty decent amount of stable dps. What im leading to to, rework must be smart and not just be straigh up ruination of specs, they must be fixed to lvl of other dps and have clear purpose.

Im not a fan taking 1.5k lileats into face myself but straight up nerf may be dumbest way to fix its position in meta. All dps specs should have same access to same lvl of damage and armor penetration bot st and aoe, but today balance fail in every possible way to make it work. Also they must bring some uniq stuff for wb so atleast so every clas should be desirable in wb/group. But again after all those reworks we dont see dps shams or doks in wb play, cos their rework was not that efective as rp/zeals. So sw is only a part of big problem that nobody want to solve, and prob will be broken/dead next class patch. After WE patch i have zero hopes for future reworks cos they are random casino of buff/nerfs instead of logical smart fixes.

As for the original question, sw more self reliable and easy to play if you solo, but usually less desirable in wb play than bw, and playing bw without heal and guard is an act of masochism. So choose acording to that.

[Farrul]

SW is the answer to this question, at least for now.

however rdps patch will change this almost certainly, as skirm aoe SW is grossly overpowered in bis gear when given WW and piloted by a proper individual. it's a sleeper pick as far as most of the community is concerned but i'm very confident that it will receive substantial nerfs in the upcoming patch (rightfully so).

I find it amusing how suddenly something is considered OP yet it has existed for years like that and none has complained about SW outdoing the meta AOE classes.

Here is the true, none exaggerated fact about this ability.

1) It costs a massive amount of AP which means it cannot be spammed indefinitely( 50ap with buff).

2) It has 5s CD and low range ( 65ft) putting the SW in danger when destro closes in, like they always do with their trillion speed buffs and cc pulls etc.

3) One cannot claim an ability is OP based on synergy with another class ability, in this case WW is a strong ability and Lileaths arrow does not have this performance without it. If we're going to start nerfing abilities based on synergy, then i would like to point towards the other side and the absurd CC with CoC destro classes get and nerf abilities claiming they are OP because they snare all the time ( obviously dont nerf these abilities based on CoC).

4) 1.5K crits. This ability will see those crits on none guarded mdps and random solo players. VS organized WB'S it will be significantly lower.

[leftayparxoun]

I find it amusing how suddenly something is considered OP yet it has existed for years like that and none has complained about SW outdoing the meta AOE classes.

Here is the true, none exaggerated fact about this ability.

1) It costs a massive amount of AP which means it cannot be spammed indefinitely( 50ap with buff).

2) It has 5s CD and low range ( 65ft) putting the SW in danger when destro closes in, like they always do with their trillion speed buffs and cc pulls etc.

3) One cannot claim an ability is OP based on synergy with another class ability, in this case WW is a strong ability and Lileaths arrow does not have this performance without it. If we're going to start nerfing abilities based on synergy, then i would like to point towards the other side and the absurd CC with CoC destro classes get and nerf abilities claiming they are OP because they snare all the time ( obviously dont nerf these abilities based on CoC).

4) 1.5K crits. This ability will see those crits on none guarded mdps and random solo players. VS organized WB'S it will be significantly lower.

1) Can be significantly mitigated by AP pot usage or AP pumps in party/wb

2) 65 ft or even 45 ft is WAY more generous than the effective range other dps need to be at in wb play. Sure, you are squishy, but with decent to good positioning skills, that is a non-issue.

3) Refer back to the Proc changes of May 2024 and June 2024 where Group procs were adjusted with group output in mind and, in the case of the latter patch, the Hit frequency of Mara and WL AOE channels was adjusted with Group procs in mind despite them being provided by other classes exclusively.

Clearly abilities are balanced with group composition and synergy in mind, and will most likely continue to do so.

4) The point is that other classes cannot reach the same output vs the same targets. And of course the same goes for guarded targets. Especially if one considers the AOE range of SW and the fact that it can hit way more targets than most mdps, including healers (who are by default unguarded).


All in all, the class is currently a VERY high output dps class, but:

• requires some moderate amount of (positioning) skill

• performs best when properly supported by its party/warband

In pug warbands (90% of what's out there currently) in most cases you cannot guarantee the second condition and, even if you do so, pug wb leaders are used to SWs that are missing either one or both of the above conditions and as such perform really badly. Therefore, SWs are really not prioritized over mdps in pug wbs (unless the wb leader knows them personally) which further exacerbates their issues and which is why you dont really see them overperforming "in the wild".

If you ask me, the class should receive certain nerfs, but ideally without them hurting the lower end of SW performance (the unsupported pugs in random comp parties). I'd personally recommend setting the Barrage cooldown to ~8 seconds and perhaps nerfing AOE direct damage in favor of better AOE DoT options.