WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[Gunlinger]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

[lumpi33]

But letting those 2 Classes keep an not intended 10 seconds 100% armor ignore trough FP on their highest hitting, low ap spammable builder. (on top of one of them not just every 60 sec for 10 sec, but even every 20 sec for 10 sec) is an absolute NO GO.
We had years of back and forth debates about the fairness and or balance of Rampage.
But here we are with people defending 1 class on both sides, that can 100% bypass
every single point of Armor by GEAR PIECE, TALISMANS, TACTICS, GROUP BUFFS, AURAS, POTS and HIGH COOLDOWN SELF BUFFS by activating a 10 second lasting self buff.

Interesting. That explains why people are sometimes melting so fast. Every type of armor is useless when they can hit you like you are naked. That's ridiculous.

100% bypass should not be a thing. Period.

[Shogun4138]

And any class with a good armor debuff pretty much removes what little armor a WE has. Making them fragile to say the least.

Lets be honest. You just want to be able to kill all WEs. You have no desire to spec to be a WE killer. So you need to nerf it. Its also ok for all classes to spec tanky or regen but the WE.

Seems to me you have trouble getting to your blob so you can spam aoe.

[Yellowemperor]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

Armor is % based mitigation, so higher armor means a higher percentage mitigated; it's not a flat 1:1 reduction. Please check the aa damage and mitigation again. lol

[noronn]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

Classic Facebook discussion…
I‘ll give you one more. Clear evidence provided 2x now. But I‘ll guess you rather die on that hill.

01:30 he hits the sorc from the front with torment


Click here to watch on YouTube

[nat3s]

These WE's def or not are gankers and scavengers that will add on to anything and this is where their ''def'' combined with stealth makes them imbalanced. This utility must come with a counter or a weakness and that is the character being squishy, Def WE bypasses that. It's simple rpg class balance design, don't design tanky stealth classes.

That's not a def WE thing, it's not even a WE thing. It's a WH and WE thing. Also, a Sac Stab WE and BAL WH is going to be significantly better at adding onto a fight due to significantly higher damage. However, 1v1 and 1vX is still more of your fights as either a WE or WH so it's obviously important to balancing decisions. If you simply removed stealth, WH and WE would be trash.

Part of the design of WH and WE is their solo ability, they don't have the tools for 6mans and WB play.

A WL is actually great at opportunistic ganking incidentally whilst also being S tier in 6man and WB play.

Seems your problem is purely stealth. On my WL I'm literally roaming *hoping* a WE will open on me.

Good so you do realize the tremendous advantage of having stealth, that's exactly why you can't compare them to your WL 1vs1 and call it balanced. It's missing most of the picture.

And discounting any other class in solo balance because they don't have stealth is missing most of the picture, balance decisions are holistic and it's obvious why that needs to be the case.

Yep, WH and WE can avoid a fight if they prefer. Benefit of stealth which again, is an intentional design going back to live.

Yeah .. but somehow you didn't think this would matter in your balance equation?
[/quote]


No, that's not what I'm saying. Stealth, stuns, punts, gap closers, staggers, disarms, melee uptime, melee downtime, dmg application, pulls - balance decisions are holistic and should consider all aspects of pvp.

You're advocating for "ignore any other balancing factor other than stealth", I'm saying "no, that's silly, you need to look at everything which contributes to class power".

[Amakusa]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

Classic Facebook discussion…
I‘ll give you one more. Clear evidence provided 2x now. But I‘ll guess you rather die on that hill.

01:30 he hits the sorc from the front with torment


Click here to watch on YouTube

He wont see the armor ignore granted by FP on autos here too
Dont waste your time