WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[CeeJay89]

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DPS healers roaming around with the skill floor of a potato chip, and defensive specced #literallyEverythingElse are something fierce as well. some WEs feel the need to spec tanky to deal with the 'add-ons', in a gamestate where so many classes are regen, why can't WEs do it too?

Dot healer are definately depressing. They are like a fun tax on people playing actual classes.

As to why people hate regen welfs. I would say because you dont expect it from them. A stealth assasin shouldn't be a tank. Also because with double heal debuff / toughness / wounds debuff they can kill healers in a tank spec

People's problem with WE/WH in general is stealth. There's no rhyme or reason for detection, and nothing breaks it. If they even just let them flicker visible when hit while stealthed, it at least wouldn't feel so bad.

Regen WE is annoying, but honestly the biggest issue with WE right now, and why people hate it, isn't regen but the sticking power. You can't kite a WE anymore. You can't run away. If they pop on you and you can't 1v1 or get help, you have no recourse. You can snare, you can root, you can knockback, you can knockdown, but it won't help because they have Fleet-footed to counter root and snare, they have unconditional pounce with snare attached to counter the knockback and most knockdowns, and if you manage to create any distance then, they can still use Elixir of Insane Power to chase. And if they really want to catch you they can use Elixir of Shadows and pounce again. There is NO answer to them except to...blob up or be specialized for dueling a 1v1.

It's not like being outsmarted by any other class where they hide and get the jump on you. WE gets ALL the tools plus some that every other dps gets... but doesn't have to use any of them to engage the target like the other dps would.

[Farrul]

Dripping with passive aggression. We're clearly not going to agree and throwing out ideas like removing stealth gives the impression you're not arguing with a clear head.

What class do you main that struggles so much with WHs/WEs? Maybe I can help there.

Its not about ''agreeing'' in this case but realizing something is off in balance. The idea to ''remove'' stealth'' and rework her mid-tree was not mine btw and you would know this if you followed the ''WE'' discussions last year, but it's an interesting idea and balanced one in how you could justify a ''Def WE'' in this game, because a ''def class'' with stealth utility will never be balanced relative to other toons.( to me that is a cool idea).

However i find it annoying that you keep repeating yourself on the point of 1vs1( no i do not need your advice but thank you , i'm very capable in 1vs1 and got a background as a professional gamer in my youth years btw).

Def we does not need balancing based on 1vs1 but based on her overall tookit and utility, a much broader context.

[Farrul]

Regen WE is annoying, but honestly the biggest issue with WE right now, and why people hate it, isn't regen but the sticking power. You can't kite a WE anymore. You can't run away. If they pop on you and you can't 1v1 or get help, you have no recourse. You can snare, you can root, you can knockback, you can knockdown, but it won't help because they have Fleet-footed to counter root and snare, they have unconditional pounce with snare attached to counter the knockback and most knockdowns, and if you manage to create any distance then, they can still use Elixir of Insane Power to chase. And if they really want to catch you they can use Elixir of Shadows and pounce again. There is NO answer to them except to...blob up or be specialized for dueling a 1v1.

It's not like being outsmarted by any other class where they hide and get the jump on you. WE gets ALL the tools plus some that every other dps gets... but doesn't have to use any of them to engage the target like the other dps would.

This is true, seems someone in the balanceteam thought it would be a cool idea to give a WE 2 x pounce without thinking about the balance consequences. Stealth class with 2 x Pounce is imbalanced. Add def'regen into the mix and it gets even worse for the victims.

One more thing has to be said about the wound debuff they added, consider that in the same tree it has 3 x 150 stat debuffs( wounds being by far the most powerful stat you could debuff) this doesn't seem like a good move, many specs/classes need a tactic to get similar stat shreds but this one is given for free in basic abilities at the highest values(150). A tree which already comes with 2 x heal debuffs etc.

On the WH (lets not forget ) i do think the BaL tactic was needlessly buffed, in this case lowering crit on BaL to 10-15% seems more balanced. In fact i would not have buffed BaL at all and instead dedicated some attention to other WH stuff that could need an uplift.

[nat3s]

Dripping with passive aggression. We're clearly not going to agree and throwing out ideas like removing stealth gives the impression you're not arguing with a clear head.

What class do you main that struggles so much with WHs/WEs? Maybe I can help there.

Its not about ''agreeing'' in this case but realizing something is off in balance. The idea to ''remove'' stealth'' and rework her mid-tree was not mine btw and you would know this if you followed the ''WE'' discussions last year, but it's an interesting idea and balanced one in how you could justify a ''Def WE'' in this game, because a ''def class'' with stealth utility will never be balanced relative to other toons.( to me that is a cool idea).

However i find it annoying that you keep repeating yourself on the point of 1vs1( no i do not need your advice but thank you , i'm very capable in 1vs1 and got a background as a professional gamer in my youth years btw).

Def we does not need balancing based on 1vs1 but based on her overall tookit and utility, a much broader context.

In your opinion something is off in balance, not in mine.

Pro gamer huh, clearly we're in the company of gaming royalty... Come on man, you realise how unhinged your posts sound?

If you don't struggle in WE duels, then neither will most people, this game isn't particularly skill centric, you're kidding yourself if you think your special in not struggling with them.

[nat3s]

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DPS healers roaming around with the skill floor of a potato chip, and defensive specced #literallyEverythingElse are something fierce as well. some WEs feel the need to spec tanky to deal with the 'add-ons', in a gamestate where so many classes are regen, why can't WEs do it too?

Dot healer are definately depressing. They are like a fun tax on people playing actual classes.

As to why people hate regen welfs. I would say because you dont expect it from them. A stealth assasin shouldn't be a tank. Also because with double heal debuff / toughness / wounds debuff they can kill healers in a tank spec

People's problem with WE/WH in general is stealth. There's no rhyme or reason for detection, and nothing breaks it. If they even just let them flicker visible when hit while stealthed, it at least wouldn't feel so bad.

Regen WE is annoying, but honestly the biggest issue with WE right now, and why people hate it, isn't regen but the sticking power. You can't kite a WE anymore. You can't run away. If they pop on you and you can't 1v1 or get help, you have no recourse. You can snare, you can root, you can knockback, you can knockdown, but it won't help because they have Fleet-footed to counter root and snare, they have unconditional pounce with snare attached to counter the knockback and most knockdowns, and if you manage to create any distance then, they can still use Elixir of Insane Power to chase. And if they really want to catch you they can use Elixir of Shadows and pounce again. There is NO answer to them except to...blob up or be specialized for dueling a 1v1.

It's not like being outsmarted by any other class where they hide and get the jump on you. WE gets ALL the tools plus some that every other dps gets... but doesn't have to use any of them to engage the target like the other dps would.

And yet I specifically hunt them on my AM, RP and WL. If you spec for solo centric play, a glass cannon WE is an easy fight to win. Def WE is harder, but still loses to other classes def specs.

[Sever1n]

Farrul dont waste you time. Clearly he will spam same and same things to the end of world without realizing what u talk about. Or maybe hes doing it on purpose.

Mods this topic went in circles, prob there will not be any new info about WE/WH, and some people started personal targeting because they run out of arguments.